if srr would have beaten maxim and stayed at light heavyweight?

[blagovech]

Originally Posted by Titan1

I read somewhere that if Robinson had won, that he was heading for a bout with Marciano, amazing if that were true.

that would have been terrible

[blagovech]

Originally Posted by ecto55

Moore may have been Maxim's next opponent, but if I were managing Ray that in no way means he would have been Sugar Ray's next opponent had Robinson won that bout and the 175lb title. It reminds me abit of the Adolph Hitler, Herman Goering and Rudolph Hess succession dynamic, where in the late 30's Hitler makes Goering his deputy aka No.2, and dimwitted but loyal Rudolph Hess his No.3. Gorman naturally complains about having as 'his' deputy Hess, who he describes as a nincompoop, and Hitler laughs at him, telling Gorman that just because Hess is Hitler's No.3, it doesn't mean he has to be your No. 2. Hitler explains that if anything happens to him and Goering becomes the new Fuehrer, he can then dispense with his 'deputy' Hess and choose his own no.2, revealing the No. 3 position as illusiory.

By that longwinded anecdote, I mean to say that had Robinson won that night (and I don't understand the exclamations of some posters- Robinson lsot a bout he had in the bag, imagine if they'd fought in Chicago wintertime) he would have been matched with the bigger money fighters at 175lb. I think they'd be preferable bouts to Moore, namely 'white' 175lb's...who knows, mabye even a European tour. I think Archie would have been frozen out longer, a change in titleholder could have set him back to square one against Robinson in the rankings as Robinon's accomplishment was feted, and white 175lb's beleived they were in with a chance. I'm also not sure at all of the specifics (someone will know), but if Kearns has anything to say about it I'll bet he'd have kept Moore out for at least a couple of years. Most importantly, I'm not so sure how the public would have liked to see a Robinson-Moore 175lb bout irrespective of how much we would have today, so where would the pressure have come from?

I look forward to someone like Surf-bat or Stonehands who knowe a great deal more than i do sharing their thoughts on this topic...

first time i ever heard someone being reminded of hitler in a srr thread

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by blagovech

that would have been terrible

It would have been the biggest draw of the decade though.

[KuRuPT]

If he ended up fighting marciano and that story was true.. It would've ended his career.. literally on that night.

[blagovech]

Originally Posted by KuRuPT

If he ended up fighting marciano and that story was true.. It would've ended his career.. literally on that night.

srr would have ended up like jimmy doyle...oh wait

[blagovech]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

It would have been the biggest draw of the decade though.

yea so would hagler-holmes

[ThinBlack]

If Ray Robinson had fought Rocky Marciano, he might have just pulled off the impossible.This is the magical and incomparable Ray Robinson we are talking about here.

[Stonehands89]

Robinson said that it was Jim Norris who broached the subject of Robinson facing Maxim. Gainford was all for it, while Robinson was not because to beat the bigger man, he'd need speed and to be speedy, he'd have to stay trim and fit while Maxim would be much bigger and stronger.

Gainford dreamt of Robinson beating Maxim and then facing the winner of Walcott-Charles. Robinson, to be sure, thought that was nutty. "If I beat Maxim," he said, "I'll have to defend it against all those big guys" -meaning light heavies.

I think Robinson wanted to maximize his price to fight Maxim. He held out for a million. I don't think he wanted to defend it though, so it seems more likely that he'd have sat on the title and held out for another million for any defense who wasn't a tomato can. And he probably would not have gotten it. Unless, unless --Harry "Kid" Matthews went back down to 175 and trainer Jack Hurley decided to go for Robinson instead of Marciano which wouldn't be unwise in terms of $$$. Hurley could've sold it big.

So, yes, Moore would have frozen out until they eventually stripped Robinson or Robinson relinquished and then Moore would have gotten his shot -probably against Maxim anyway for the vacant throne.

Aside from Matthews, I don't see Robinson messing around with light heavies. He weighed in at 157 1/2 on the day of the fight. The idea that he could beat Maxim or Matthews is reasonable. The idea that he could beat a beast like Moore or Charles or Walcott is not.

[Saintpat]

Originally Posted by blagovech

first time i ever heard someone being reminded of hitler in a srr thread

Robinson would have destroyed Hitler.

[blagovech]

Originally Posted by Stonehands89

Robinson said that it was Jim Norris who broached the subject of Robinson facing Maxim. Gainford was all for it, while Robinson was not because to beat the bigger man, he'd need speed and to be speedy, he'd have to stay trim and fit while Maxim would be much bigger and stronger.

Gainford dreamt of Robinson beating Maxim and then facing the winner of Walcott-Charles. Robinson, to be sure, thought that was nutty. "If I beat Maxim," he said, "I'll have to defend it against all those big guys" -meaning light heavies.

I think Robinson wanted to maximize his price to fight Maxim. He held out for a million. I don't think he wanted to defend it though, so it seems more likely that he'd have sat on the title and held out for another million for any defense who wasn't a tomato can. And he probably would not have gotten it. Unless, unless --Harry "Kid" Matthews went back down to 175 and trainer Jack Hurley decided to go for Robinson instead of Marciano which wouldn't be unwise in terms of $$$. Hurley could've sold it big.

So, yes, Moore would have frozen out until they eventually stripped Robinson or Robinson relinquished and then Moore would have gotten his shot -probably against Maxim anyway for the vacant throne.

Aside from Matthews, I don't see Robinson messing around with light heavies. He weighed in at 157 1/2 on the day of the fight. The idea that he could beat Maxim or Matthews is reasonable. The idea that he could beat a beast like Moore or Charles or Walcott is not.

thanks for the info

[blagovech]

Originally Posted by Saintpat

Robinson would have destroyed Hitler.