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Old 11-30-2012, 03:36 AM   #46
OvidsExile
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

Looks like I got my Carmen Basilio count wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhascup View Post
Here's the STATS on both of them:

Graham fought 22 different opponents 32 times that were rated in the top 10 at one time or another.

Basilio fought 21 different opponents 31 times that were rated in the top 10 at one time or another.

While they were rated Basilio fought 19 while Graham fought 18 plus 1 if you count another Champion at another weight.

Basilio was rated from June 1953 to February 1962, for a total of 87 months.

Graham was rated from March 1947 to February 1955, for a total of 64 months.

Billy Graham (32)

Aragon, Art - 1-0-0
Basilio, Carmen – 1-1-1
Carto, Frankie – 1-0-0
Castellani, Rocky – 0-0-1
Cesario, Johnny – 1-0-0
Crawford, Davey – 1-0-0
DeMarco, Paddy – 0-1-0
Dussart, Kid – 1-0-0
Fuentes, Ramon – 0-1-0
Gavilan, Kid – 1-3-0
Giardello, Joey – 1-2-0
Larkin, Tippy – 0-1-0
Lewis, Charles Cabey – 1-0-0
Minelli, Aldo – 1-0-0
Pellone, Tony – 1-2-0
Pruden, Fitzie – 1-0-0
Shans, Cleo – 1-0-0
Thomas, Eddie – 0-1-0
Trigo, Mario – 0-0-1
Vejar, Chico – 0-2-0
Young, Paddy – 1-0-0
Young, Terry – 1-0-0

TOTAL – 15-14-3

Carmen Basilio (31)

Andrews, Al – 1-0-0
Aragon, Art – 1-0-0
Cesario, Johnny – 0-1-0
Davey, Chuck – 0-1-1
DeMarco, Tony – 2-0-0
Felton, Lester – 0-1-0
Fullmer, Gene – 0-2-0
Gavilan, Kid – 0-1-0
Giosa, Eddie – 1-1-0
Graham, Billy – 1-1-1
Jenkins, Lew – 1-0-0
Jones, Harold – 1-0-0
Jordan, Don – 1-0-0
Langlois, Pierre – 1-0-1
Ortega, Gaspar – 1-0-0
Pender, Paul – 0-1-0
Robinson, Sugar Ray – 1-1-0
Saxton, Johnny – 2-1-0
Turner, Gil – 1-0-0
Virgo, Ross – 0-1-0
Williams, Ike – 1-0-0

TOTAL – 16-12-3
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:09 AM   #47
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovid***ile View Post
I'd also like to see the results for other recent greats such as Hopkins, Marquez, Mosley, and Whitaker. Or the real old timers like Greb, Gans, Sullivan, Walcott, Nonpareil Dempsey, and Bob Fitzsimmons. Benny Leonard, Tony Canzoneri, Marvin Hagler, Salvador Sanchez, Eder Jofre, Mickey Walker, Ruben Olivares, Langford, Wills, Dempsey, and Carmen Basilio all need doing too. Thanks.

There were no ratings prior to 1924 (annual ratings), and Ring didn't start doing monthly ratings until May 1928, so a lot of those you mention will not be possible to make lists on.

I'll try do get a few lists done this weekend.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:22 PM   #48
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

I'm trying to do this using The Boxing Register. These guys are pre-rankings so this is touch and go. Where it says a fight was for the title I'm marking people as contenders. If I make mistakes please feel free to correct me.

Jack Nonpareil Dempsey
Jul 30 1884 George Fulljames (contender) KO22
Jan 15 1886 Mike Donovan (HOF) W4
Feb 3 1886 Jack Fogarty (contender) KO27
Mar 14 1886 George LaBlanche (contender) KO13
Dec 13 1887 Johnny Reagan (contender) TKO45
Nov 15 1888 Mike Donovan (HOF) D6
Feb 18 1890 Aus.Billy McCarthy (contender) TKO28
Jan 14 1891 Bob Fitzsimmons (HOF) TKO'd 13
Jan 18 1895 Tommy Ryan (HOF) TKO'd 3
6-2-1
The register actually left out the first Donovan fight, but I saw it on boxrec.

Jack Dillon
Oct 23 1911 Battling Levinsky (HOF) ND-W6
Apr 17 1913 Battling Levinsky (HOF) ND-D10
Apr 14 1914 Battling Levinsky (HOF) W12
May 29 1914 Battling Levinsky (HOF) ND-W10
Jun 15 1914 Bob Moha (contender) W12
Feb 8 1916 Battling Levinsky (HOF) ND-D10
Nov 19 1916 Mike Gibbons (HOF) ND-L10
Jul 30 1917 Harry Greb (HOF) NDL-12
4-2-2

George Dixon
Feb 7 1890 Cal McCarthy (contender) D70
Jun 27 1890 Nunc Wallace (champion) KO18
Oct 23 1890 Johnny Murphy (contender) KO40
Mar 31 1891 Cal McCarthy (contender) KO22
Jul 28 1891 Abe Willis (contender) KO5
Jun 27 1892 Fred Johnson (contender) KO14
Sep 6 1892 Jack Skelly (contender) KO8
Aug 7 1893 Eddie Pierce (contender) KO3
Sep 25 1893 Solly Smith (contender) KO7
Jun 29 1894 Young Griffo (HOF) D20
Jan 19 1895 Young Griffo (HOF) D25
Aug 27 1895 Johnny Griffin (contender) W25
Oct 28 1895 Young Griffo (HOF) D10
Nov 27 1896 Frank Erne (contender) L20
Mar 24 1897 Frank Erne (contender) W25
Oct 4 1897 Solly Smith (contender) L20
Jun 6 1898 Eddie Santry (contender) W20
Jul 1 1898 Ben Jordan (contender) L25
Nov 11 1898 Dave Sullivan (champion) W by DQ10
Nov 29 1898 Oscar Gardner (contender) W25
May 15 1899 Kid Broad (contender) W20
Jun 2 1899 Joe Bernstein (contender) W25
Jul 11 1899 Tommy White (contender) W20
Aug 11 1899 Eddie Santry (contender) D20
Nov 2 1899 Will Curley (contender) W25
Nov 21 1899 Eddie Lenny (contender) W25
Jan 9 1900 Terry McGovern (HOF) TKO'd 8
Jun 23 1900 Terry McGovern (HOF) L6
Aug 24 1901 Abe Attell (HOF) D10
Oct 20 1901 Abe Attell (HOF) D20
Oct 28 1901 Abe Attell (HOF) L15
Jan 24 1903 Jim Driscoll (HOF) D6
18-6-8
I have to wonder about some of the world title matches, since I don't think belts existed at the time at the weights it says they were fought for. Perhaps, the editor is speculating that they would have been title matches had belts existed for those weights?

Bob Fitzsimmons
Jan 14 1891 Jack Nonpareil Dempsey (HOF) TKO13
Jun 17 1894 Joe Choynski (HOF) D5
Sep 26 1894 Dan Creedon (contender) KO2
Dec 2 1896 Tom Sharkey (HOF) L by DQ8
Mar 17 1897 James J. Corbett (HOF) KO14
Jun 9 1899 James J. Jeffries KO'd11
Aug 24 1900 Tom Sharkey (HOF) KO2
Jul 25 1902 James J. Jeffries KO'd8
Nov 25 1903 George Gardner (champion) W20
Jul 23 1904 Phila. Jack O'Brien (HOF) ND-L6
Dec 20 1905 Phila. Jack O'Brien (HOF) TKO'd13
Jul 17 1907 Jack Johnson (HOF) KO'd 2
5-6-1
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:32 PM   #49
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovid***ile View Post
Salvador Sanchez
1980-02-02 Danny Lopez TKO13
1980-04-12 Ruben Castillo UD15
1980-06-21 Danny Lopez TKO14
1980-09-13 Pat Ford MD15
1980-12-13 Juan Laporte UD15
1981-03-22 Roberto Castanon TKO10
1981-07-11 Nicky Perez PTS10
1981-08-21 Wilfredo Gomez TKO8
1981-12-12 Pat Cowdell SD15
1982-05-08 Rocky Garcia UD15
1982-07-21 Azumah Nelson TKO15

11-0-0
I would be very interested to see how Saldivar's record compares to Sanchez! Anyone???
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:57 PM   #50
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

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Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69 View Post
I would be very interested to see how Saldivar's record compares to Sanchez! Anyone???
Salazar KO4, KO5
Laguna W10
Ramos KO12
Rojas KO15
Winstone W15, W15, KO12
Robertson KO2
Seki W15, KO7
Legra W10
Famechon W15
Shibata LTKO13
Crawford W10
Jofre LKO4

14-2
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:13 PM   #51
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

Jack Dillon has a much more impressive win list than that.

I've studied pre ring history intensely.

When I'm back home I'll share what i have for some of the early greats. When you look in detail you begin to get a very good idea of who was a contender and who was a journeyman.

At some point tomorrow I'll do it but I stress again I only count losses suffered in what I deem to be a fighters prime years.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:39 PM   #52
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

Young Griffo
Sep 2 1890 Billy Murphey (champion) TKO15
Mar 12 1891George Powell (contender) W by DQ20
Feb 10 1894 Kid Lavigne (HOF) D8
Jun 29 1894 George Dixon (HOF) D20
Aug 27 1894 Jack McAuliffe (HOF) L10
Jan 19 1895 George Dixon (HOF) D25
Oct 12 1895 Kid Lavigne (HOF) D20
Oct 28 1895 George Dixon (HOF) D10
Nov 18 1895 Joe Gans (HOF) D10
Sep 21 1897 Joe Gans (HOF) D15
Jul 10 1900 Joe Gans (HOF) KO'd 8
2-2-7

Bob Foster
Oct 20 1962 Doug Jones (contender) TKO'd8
Nov 6 1963 Mauro Mina (contender) L10
Jul 10 1964 Ernie Terrell (contender) KO'd7
Dec 11 1964 Henry Hank (contender) TKO10
Dec 6 1965 Zora Folley (contender) L10
Feb 27 1967 Andres Selpa (contender) TKO2
May 8 1967 Eddie Cotton (contender) TKO3
May 24 1968 Dick Tiger (HOF) KO4
Sep 9 1968 Roger Rouse (contender) TKO5
May 24 1969 Andy Kendall (contender) TKO4
Jun 27 1970 Mark Tessman (contender) KO10
Nov 18 1970 Joe Frazier (HOF) KO'd2
Dec 16 1971 Brian Kelly (contender) TKO3
Apr 7 1972 Vicente Rondon (champion) KO2
Jun 27 1972 Mike Quarry (contender) KO4
Sep 26 1972 Chris Finnegan (contender) KO14
Nov 21 1972 Muhammad Ali (HOF) KO'd8
Aug 21 1973 Pierre Fourie (contender) W15
Dec 1 1973 Pierre Fourie (contender) W15
Jun 17 1974 Jorge Ahumada (contender) D15
13-6-1
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:14 AM   #53
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

Ok what I did is for each fighter I looked at what I considered their best ten victories in a weight as well as any losses during their prime. I don't include any distance fights below ten rounds as they aren't enough to indicate superiority to me. so here's an example:

Jack Dillon

HW -

Flynn (x4), D Flynn(x2), Moran, Weinert, Mantell, Smith (x3) - Flynn (D) - Miske (L).

LHW -

Levinsky (x5), Miske, Moha (x2), JT Sullivan, McCoy (x2), Weinert, Mantell (x2), Z Kid, - Levinsky (D) McMahon (D), McCoy (D) - Greb (L), Levinsky (Lx2), Miske (Lx3), McMahon (L)


MW -

Klaus, Houck, Chip (x6), Moha, Kelly, Murray, Gardner, JT Sullivan, Mantell (x2), Christie (x5) - Chip (Dx2), Moha (Dx2), McGoorty (D) - Klaus (Lx2), M Gibbons (Lx2)

Mike Gibbons

LHW -

Houck, McGoorty.

MW -

Dillon (x2), T Lewis, Clabby (x2), W Lewis, McCoy, Moha, Chip (x2), Bartfield, O'Dowd, McGoorty - Clabby (D), Chip (D) - McFarland, Bartfield (L), McGoorty (L), Denning (L).

WW -

W Lewis.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:14 AM   #54
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

I've done this with hundreds of fighters so there's bound to be errors here and there.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:21 AM   #55
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

Nigel Benn
1989-05-21 Michael Watson TKO'd6
1990-04-29 Doug Dewitt TKO8
1990-08-18 Iran Barkley TKO1
1990-11-18 Chris Eubank TKO'd9
1991-04-03 Robbie Sims TKO7
1992-05-23 Thulani Malinga pts10
1992-10-03 Mauro Galvano TKO4
1992-12-12 Nicky Piper TKO11
1993-03-06 Mauro Galvano UD12
1993-06-26 Lou Gent TKO4
1993-10-09 Chris Eubank D12
1994-02-26 Henry Wharton UD12
1994-09-10 Juan Carlos Gimenez UD12
1995-02-25 Gerald McClellan KO10
1995-07-22 Vincenzo Nardiello TKO8
1995-09-02 Danny Perez TKO7
1996-03-02 Thulani Malinga L12
1996-07-06 Steve Collins TKO'd4
1996-11-09 Steve Collins Rtd6
13-5-1

Michael Nunn
21/11/1986 Alex Ramos UD12
28/07/1988 Frank Tate TKO9
04/11/1988 Juan Roldan KO8
25/03/1989 Sumbu Kalambay KO1
14/08/1989 Iran Barkley MD12
14/04/1990 Marlon Starling MD12
18/10/1990 Donald Curry KO10
10/05/1991 James Toney TKO'd11
12/09/1992 Victor Cordoba SD12
30/01/1993 Victor Cordoba UD12
20/02/1993 Dan Morgan KO1
23/04/1993 Crawford Ashley TKO6
18/12/1993 Merqui Sosa UD12
26/02/1994 Steve Little L12
17/12/1994 Frankie Liles L12
08/12/1995 John Scully UD12
21/03/1998 Graciano Rocchigiani L12
09/05/1999 William Guthrie TKO7
14-4-0

Iran Barkley
23/10/1987 Sumbu Kalambay L15
06/06/1988 Thomas Hearns TKO3
24/02/1989 Roberto Duran L12
14/08/1989 Michael Nunn L12
18/08/1990 Nigel Benn TKO'd1
10/01/1992 Darrin van Horn TKO2
20/03/1992 Thomas Hearns SD12
13/02/1993 James Toney RTD9
08/10/1994 Henry Maske RTD9
08/06/1997 Gerrie Coetzee TKO10
29/06/1999 Trevor Berbick L8
4-7-0
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:26 AM   #56
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

Kostya Tszyu
1992-07-23 Juan La Porte UD10
1992-11-13 Sammy Fuentes TKO1
1993-08-23 Livingston Bramble UD10
1994-01-11 Hector Lopez UD10
1995-01-28 Jake Rodriguez TKO6
1995-06-25 Roger Mayweather UD12
1996-01-20 Hugo Pineda TKO11
1996-05-24 Corey Johnson KO4
1996-09-14 Jan Piet Bergman KO6
1997-01-18 Leonardo Mas NC1
1997-05-31 Vince Philips TKO'd10
1997-12-06 Ismael Armando Chaves TKO3
1998-04-05 Calvin Grove KO1
1998-08-15 Rafael Ruelas TKO9
1998-11-28 Diosbelys Hurtado TKO5
1999-08-21 Miguel Angel Gonzalez TKO10
2000-02-12 Ahmed Santos TKO8
2000-07-29 Julio Cesar Chavez TKO6
2001-02-03 Sharmba Mitchell RTD7
2001-06-23 Oktay Urkal UD12
2001-11-03 Zab Judah TKO2
2002-05-18 Ben Tackie UD12
2003-01-19 Jesse James Leija TKO6
2004-11-06 Sharmba Mitchell TKO3
2005-06-04 Ricky Hatton RTD11
22-2-1

Mike McCallum
13/11/1982 Ayub Kalule RTD7 (W)
19/10/1984 Sean Mannion UD15
01/12/1984 Luigi Minchillo TKO13
28/07/1985 David Braxton TKO8
23/08/1986 Julian Jackson TKO2
25/10/1986 Said Skouma TKO9
19/04/1987 Milton McCrory TKO10
18/07/1987 Donald Curry KO5
05/03/1988 Sumbu Kalambay L12
10/05/1989 Herol Graham SD12
03/02/1990 Steve Collins UD12
14/04/1990 Michael Watson KO11
01/04/1991 Sumbu Kalambay SD12
13/12/1991 James Toney D12
29/08/1992 James Toney L12
04/03/1994 Randall Yonker TKO5
23/07/1994 Jeff Harding UD12
25/02/1995 Carl Jones TKO7
16/06/1995 Fabrice Tiozzo L12
22/11/1996 Roy Jones Jr. L12
22/02/1997 James Toney L12
15-5-1

Ronald Winky Wright
1994-08-21 Julio Cesar Vasquez L12
1996-05-17 Bronco McKart SD12
1996-11-09 Ensley Bingham UD12
1997-05-03 Steve Foster TKO6
1997-12-19 Adrian Dodson TKO6
1998-08-22 Harry Simon L12
1999-03-27 Derrick Graham KO3
1999-12-04 Fernando Vargas L12
2000-09-09 Bronco McKart UD12
2000-12-16 Keith Mullings UD12
2001-10-12 Robert Frazier UD12
2002-02-02 Jason Papillion TKO5
2002-09-07 Bronco McKart DQ9
2003-03-01 Juan Carlos Candelo UD12
2003-11-08 Angel Hernandez UD12
2004-03-13 Shane Mosley UD12
2004-11-20 Shane Mosley MD12
2005-05-14 Felix Trinidad UD12
2005-12-10 Sam Soliman UD12
2006-06-17 Jermain Taylor D12
2006-12-02 Ike Quartey UD12
2007-07-21 Bernard Hopkins L12
2009-04-11 Paul Williams L12
2012-06-02 Peter Quillin L10
18-6-1
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:17 PM   #57
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

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Originally Posted by Ovid***ile View Post
08/06/1997 Gerrie Coetzee TKO10
29/06/1999 Trevor Berbick L8
Are you really suggesting Coetzee and Berbick were top 10 Ring ranked fighters in the late 1990s?
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:31 PM   #58
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

Floyd Mayweather Jr.

1998: Genaro Hernandez (World SFW Champion)
1998: Angel Manfredy (No. 2 SFW)
2000: Goyo Vargas (No. 10 SFW)
2001: Diego Corrales (No. 1 SFW)
2001: Jesus Chavez (No. 4 SFW)
2002: Jose Luis Castillo (No. 1 LW, WBC claimant) [New lineage]
2002: Jose Luis Castillo (No. 1 LW)
2003: Philip N'Dou (No. 4 SFW) (@135)
2004: DeMarcus Corley (No. 5 LWW)
2005: Arturo Gatti (No. 1 LWW, WBC claimant)
2006: Zab Judah (No. 3 WW)
2006: Carlos Baldomir (World WW Champion)
2007: Oscar De La Hoya (No. 5 LMW, WBC claimant)
2007: Ricky Hatton (World LWW Champion) (@147)
2009: Juan M. Marquez (World LW Champion) (@147)
2010: Shane Mosley (No. 2 WW, WBA claimant)
2011: Victor Ortiz (No. 2 WW, WBC claimant)
2012: Miguel Cotto (No. 1 LMW, WBA claimant)

Add two more for 2013.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:40 PM   #59
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Default Re: Hall of Famers vs Top 10 Contenders

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Are you really suggesting Coetzee and Berbick were top 10 Ring ranked fighters in the late 1990s?
No, but they were both former champions, and my understanding is that we were listing win, loss, draws against hall of famers, champions, and contenders.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:57 PM   #60
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No, but they were both former champions, and my understanding is that we were listing win, loss, draws against hall of famers, champions, and contenders.
In this era then, you might as well list their entire resume then...
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