Who has been Pacquiao's most "Prime" opponent?

[JMP]

Originally Posted by Jorrvaskr

where's the Shane Mosley option?

[JMP]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

wide punches because he was forced into brawling. watch round 1 and you would see cotto maintining his game plan with his usual straight and sharp jabs that kept pac at bay and actually took that round in the 3 judges eyes. pac was just faster and confused cotto with his angles. it also helped that pac enticed cotto to come inside by covering up.

i believe that if cotto just maintained discipline, he could have finished the fight and even have a good chance of winning on points.

I'm seeing what you're saying, but Cotto's technical and skill issues were also clear in the fight before Pacquiao against Joshua Clottey when Clueless Joe took over. I'd say he looked even worse there. I've never seen him so squared up and hunched so far forwards with so much weight on his front foot. It totally fucked his balance and ability to maintain it while throwing punches. Not only that, but the punches and combinations themselves looked to be much slower and far from sharp.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'd say that was the worst Cotto I've seen since he was badly drained at 140. He looked a bit more conditioned, quicker, and snappy against Manny later that year. He definitely got up for Manny, despite not having a grade-A team to supplement it.

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by Bogotazo

Being forced into brawling is a symptom of not having a proper corner. Look at the way he was punching leading up to the second knockdown-so much of his weight on the front foot, right and left looping all over the place before the side-step + left uppercut knocked him down. In all the wars he'd been in, Cotto was never so sloppy when exchanging, and never looked so helpless and clueless once dropped. Before that fight and since then, his defense and punching form and balance and lateral movement has looked better. I'm not discrediting Pacquiao's win, but Cotto was unprepared tactically and it showed in his mechanics.

i believe this is because he was fighting a faster opponent who keeps on moving out of cotto's position (during the exchanges in the brawl). cotto would of course look sloppy when exchanging with the faster pac. he didn't look sloppy in the first two rounds until the knockdown. and after the 2nd kd in the fourth, the will to fight was completely gone.

his corner nor even cotto has no real way of knowing if pac was really hurt or just playing possum (which is the actual case) on why pac suddenly covered up in round 2. even roach thinks it's a stupid idea from pac (at that time) siting cotto's ability to pour on the body. cotto instinctively just followed his guts and play the predator's role in almost his every fight while pac measuring what cotto can unleash.

pac took on everything that cotto can possibly give that night and it was not enough.

[Bogotazo]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

i believe this is because he was fighting a faster opponent who keeps on moving out of cotto's position (during the exchanges in the brawl). cotto would of course look sloppy when exchanging with the faster pac. he didn't look sloppy in the first two rounds until the knockdown. and after the 2nd kd in the fourth, the will to fight was completely gone.

his corner nor even cotto has no real way of knowing if pac was really hurt or just playing possum (which is the actual case) on why pac suddenly covered up in round 2. even roach thinks it's a stupid idea from pac (at that time) siting cotto's ability to pour on the body. cotto instinctively just followed his guts and play the predator's role in almost his every fight while pac measuring what cotto can unleash.

pac took on everything that cotto can possibly give that night and it was not enough.

He wasn't sloppy because Manny was faster, he was just sloppy. Judah, Mosley, Torres...all fast hard-hitting fighters. Again, Manny did lots of things to nullify Cotto, but Cotto was unprepared to side-step or tighten his punches or feint, etc.

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by JMP

I'm seeing what you're saying, but Cotto's technical and skill issues were also clear in the fight before Pacquiao against Joshua Clottey when Clueless Joe took over. I'd say he looked even worse there. I've never seen him so squared up and hunched so far forwards with so much weight on his front foot. It totally fucked his balance and ability to maintain it while throwing punches. Not only that, but the punches and combinations themselves looked to be much slower and far from sharp.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'd say that was the worst Cotto I've seen since he was badly drained at 140. He looked a bit more conditioned, quicker, and snappy against Manny later that year. He definitely got up for Manny, despite not having a grade-A team to supplement it.

[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6aoRkkpjY[/ame]

here is the round 1 of that fight. when all is still ok and cotto was not yet knocked-downed. please watch the fight and cotto actually did well. bouncing around, leading great with his fast and snappy jabs and backing off just right when pac counters. he also xonnected a couple of good body shots and some left hooks. the first time i watched it, it seems an even round but now, it's a clear cotto round.

cotto did well in this one boxing with his skills. of course pac is visibly faster but he negated it with excellent movement.

[r1p00pk]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

cotto was much faster at WW. his jabs were much sharper than the ones encountered by floyd. and he is much fresher (about 3 yers younger). he took a knee against margo to live and fight another day. everyone thought he was finished after that but he beat clottey. no one has ever dominated clottey before even margo.



nice counter-argument.

sharper ? when he was being trained by joe santiago he was at his worst. i dont understand how you dont see that. he lived and fought another day but was mentally gone till he could bring his confidence back, his physical prime was gone, he took a huge beating. His life was a mess, he had problems with his uncle that were not fixed.


you saw how he fought michael jennings after the fight, did he look good? yes but different and definently a bit more hesitant to pull the trigger. Now compare that to the fight with oktay urkal, judah, mosely, quintana and gomez.

[DobyZhee]

Originally Posted by r1p00pk

sharper ? when he was being trained by joe santiago he was at his worst. i dont understand how you dont see that. he lived and fought another day but was mentally gone till he could bring his confidence back, his physical prime was gone, he took a huge beating. His life was a mess, he had problems with his uncle that were not fixed.

Pac showed that Cotto really is a B- level opponent above 140.

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by r1p00pk

sharper ? when he was being trained by joe santiago he was at his worst. i dont understand how you dont see that. he lived and fought another day but was mentally gone till he could bring his confidence back, his physical prime was gone, he took a huge beating. His life was a mess, he had problems with his uncle that were not fixed.

[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6aoRkkpjY[/ame]

watch this and tell me if his jabs are not sharp.

[bballchump11]

nobody is trying to claim Cotto's jab became shit after he got assaulted by Margarito

[Barrera]

its a close draw between bradley and marquez.. both were in prime no doubt about it

all the rest were over the hill (some only just)..

margarito was coming off a year ban and a knockout loss so def not him, cotto coming off a loss and trainer issues, hatton coming off a KO loss

[r1p00pk]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

watch this and tell me if his jabs are not sharp.

yeah and? cotto has always had a good jab. He developed it since he was a welterweight. Now compare that to the mosely fight, the quintana fight, the judah fight, oktay and gomez. This wasnt the same cotto its obvious

[r1p00pk]

Originally Posted by DobyZhee

Pac showed that Cotto really is a B- level opponent above 140.

yeah after a beating from margarito, having no trainer, and having other personal problems in his life. No excuse but this was not the cotto that defeated mosely

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by r1p00pk

yeah and? cotto has always had a good jab. He developed it since he was a welterweight. Now compare that to the mosely fight, the quintana fight, the judah fight, oktay and gomez. This wasnt the same cotto its obvious

and it was not only the jabs that was on display that round. the trademark cotto hooks to the body, and bouncing off and using the ring.

it's not the same cotto after he got knockdowned. if cotto just maintained that form and gameplan that he did in the first round, you would have claimed that he was better than ever.

[r1p00pk]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

and it was not only the jabs that was on display that round. the trademark cotto hooks to the body, and bouncing off and using the ring.

it's not the same cotto after he got knockdowned. if cotto just maintained that form and gameplan that he did in the first round, you would have claimed that he was better than ever.

no course not, because cotto was definently more tactical than usual, more cautious. The way he fought was nothing like he was before. the way he boxed was more cautious than confident its clear his mentality was never the same after his first loss. The way he fought clottey showed the same thing i dont understand how you can even think that cotto was prime, he was at his prime weight but not his physical or mental prime. He was still very good but not his best.

[BretN]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

cotto's prime is from 2007-2009. around at his prime weight and at his physical peak. there is no such evidence that cotto is not in his utmost prime during that period. even that version of cotto who fought margo, clottey and pac would have beat the version of bradley that pac fought. don't get too emotional just because your opinion is not shared by everyone.

Cottos prime was 2009? Do you actually watch boxing or just wank over boxrec and Pacquiao pictures all day? 2009 was one of Cottos worst years in terms of performance. Seriously, did you watch any of his fights that year?