Who has been Pacquiao's most "Prime" opponent?

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by r1p00pk

no course not, because cotto was definently more tactical than usual, more cautious. The way he fought was nothing like he was before. the way he boxed was more cautious than confident its clear his mentality was never the same after his first loss. The way he fought clottey showed the same thing i dont understand how you can even think that cotto was prime, he was at his prime weight but not his physical or mental prime. He was still very good but not his best.

and he was still the same old cotto in that first round. you cannot just draw bounderies after a lost. see what he was doing in his fight after that. clottey would have always troubled cotto. no one has dominted clottey before the cotto fight but cotto passed the clottey test.

it's clear that cotto's game changed after the knockdown. before that, he is roughly the same cotto who mixes jabs and hooks winning that round tactically.

[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6aoRkkpjY[/ame]

[r1p00pk]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

and he was still the same old cotto in that first round. you cannot just draw bounderies after a lost. see what he was doing in his fight after that. clottey would have always troubled cotto. no one has dominted clottey before the cotto fight but cotto passed the clottey test.

it's clear that cotto's game changed after the knockdown. before that, he is roughly the same cotto who mixes jabs and hooks winning that round tactically.

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man wtf? you cant be serious, no he was never that tactical before, you cant honestly tell me that the pacquiao fight he looked like how he was when he fought mosely. it was clear after the jennings fight, he shouldve blew jennings out of the water but was started becoming more tactical than before. He was less offensive than he was before and more focused on defense. The point of his offense was that he drowned out the other guys offense which was his defense.

[tezel8764]

Floyd Mayweather Jr.

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by r1p00pk

man wtf? you cant be serious, no he was never that tactical before, you cant honestly tell me that the pacquiao fight he looked like how he was when he fought mosely. it was clear after the jennings fight, he shouldve blew jennings out of the water but was started becoming more tactical than before. He was less offensive than he was before and more focused on defense. The point of his offense was that he drowned out the other guys offense which was his defense.

and ironically being more offensive/aggressive was his downfall in the pac fight. he was doing much better when he was boxing intelligently in round 1.

[bballchump11]

what is funny is he keeps trying to say Cotto was still at his peak based off just the first round

Chad Dawson looked really good in the first round vs Ward
Roy looked good in the first round vs Tarver II
Morales looked good in the first round of the second Pac fight
Hatton looked good in his last fight in the first round
Mosley looked good vs Mayweather in the first round


I think you get the point and if you don't then pay more attention to the sport

[Farmboxer]

Pac beat the crap out of Bradley in a one-sided fight. In one round Pac landed 2 punches to Bradley's one punch, yet the criminal judges still gave Bradley the round. Pac should go ahead and knock Bradley out in his next fight. Bradley is not in Pac's class.

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by bballchump11

what is funny is he keeps trying to say Cotto was still at his peak based off just the first round

Chad Dawson looked really good in the first round vs Ward
Roy looked good in the first round vs Tarver II
Morales looked good in the first round of the second Pac fight
Hatton looked good in his last fight in the first round
Mosley looked good vs Mayweather in the first round


I think you get the point and if you don't then pay more attention to the sport

you missed the point completely. cotto was not only doing great in round 1 but until he took a shot that changed the complexion of the fight.

[JMP]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

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here is the round 1 of that fight. when all is still ok and cotto was not yet knocked-downed. please watch the fight and cotto actually did well. bouncing around, leading great with his fast and snappy jabs and backing off just right when pac counters. he also xonnected a couple of good body shots and some left hooks. the first time i watched it, it seems an even round but now, it's a clear cotto round.

cotto did well in this one boxing with his skills. of course pac is visibly faster but he negated it with excellent movement.

Yeah, Cotto had pockets of success against Pacquiao, no doubt. He started off trying to get the jab going and trying to respond to every Pacquiao combination. Managed to get in clean work with Pacquiao on the ropes and when he found himself on the ropes on a couple occasions. Problem was that Pacquiao's timing was otherworldly in that fight. He had a perfect read on when Cotto was advancing with the jab and quickly shifted to his right and beat him to the punch with straight left hands. The second round was when I thought to myself that it was only a matter of time before Pacquiao starts to do some serious damange to Cotto. I like to look at that fight as more Pacquiao taking away Cotto's strengths with his own overwhelming ones more so than Cotto not being 100% prepared and not fighting the "correct" fight. Anything he tried to do on that night, I'd fully expect Pacquiao to have his number. Even if he tried to be in full retreat mode earlier, I think Pacquiao would've stepped on the gas harder and gotten to him if he felt he was in danger of losing the fight.

A rematch could be intriguing if both manage to look good in their next fights.

[r1p00pk]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

and ironically being more offensive/aggressive was his downfall in the pac fight. he was doing much better when he was boxing intelligently in round 1.

that was more like reckless offense, hey was throwing many wide shots like bogo had said. This was not the same cotto how can you even compare this is rediculous how anyone can even argue about this.

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by r1p00pk

that was more like reckless offense, hey was throwing many wide shots like bogo had said. This was not the same cotto how can you even compare this is rediculous how anyone can even argue about this.

he has to throw those "wide shots" as you call it because pac was evidently faster and constantly moves around. and cotto was throwing looping hooks when pac is covering up and staying on the ropes. that was a classic cotto move when an opponent is cornered. pac busted his eardrums because of that.

cotto gambled by thinking he could beat pac in those exhanges where pac was more faster and accurate. of course, cotto could do all that against lesser opponents but not against pac.

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by JMP

Yeah, Cotto had pockets of success against Pacquiao, no doubt. He started off trying to get the jab going and trying to respond to every Pacquiao combination. Managed to get in clean work with Pacquiao on the ropes and when he found himself on the ropes on a couple occasions. Problem was that Pacquiao's timing was otherworldly in that fight. He had a perfect read on when Cotto was advancing with the jab and quickly shifted to his right and beat him to the punch with straight left hands. The second round was when I thought to myself that it was only a matter of time before Pacquiao starts to do some serious damange to Cotto. I like to look at that fight as more Pacquiao taking away Cotto's strengths with his own overwhelming ones more so than Cotto not being 100% prepared and not fighting the "correct" fight. Anything he tried to do on that night, I'd fully expect Pacquiao to have his number. Even if he tried to be in full retreat mode earlier, I think Pacquiao would've stepped on the gas harder and gotten to him if he felt he was in danger of losing the fight.

A rematch could be intriguing if both manage to look good in their next fights.

this is a good and objective post. i actually agree but i think cotto could have done better if he did not took the pac bait.

[r1p00pk]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

he has to throw those "wide shots" as you call it because pac was evidently faster and constantly moves around. and cotto was throwing looping hooks when pac is covering up and staying on the ropes. that was a classic cotto move when an opponent is cornered. pac busted his eardrums because of that.

cotto gambled by thinking he could beat pac in those exhanges where pac was more faster and accurate. of course, cotto could do all that against lesser opponents but not against pac.

classic cotto? lol have you even watched cotto


this is classic cotto

[Snakefist]

tbh JMM, Barrera, and Bradley. These are the only guys who, if mentioning pacs best victories, where they were not coming back from bad losses -- these were on winning streaks and in top form in their capabilities in fights prior to Pac.

Cotto was not primed, at least not mentally, at that point. I dont know, he had got absolutely destroyed by Margo in those later rounds, he took a beating, and it really affected him mentally, and he didn't recover from that for a long time. His issue is the same as Mosley after the Forrest fight, I give more credit to people who beat mosley after he got his confidence back, than I would right after the forrest loss.

Cotto after Margo had a bad performance against Clottley. He hadn't looked his self in a while at that point. Cotto had moments against pac, but I dont think he was his best.

[dangerousity]

Originally Posted by r1p00pk

course not, his physical peak ended as well as his mentality as an undefeated fighter is gone. But this version is better than the cotto that fought pacquiao. At least he had a trainer, better mentality than when he fought pac.

you can't be serious this is honestly just to say that pacquiao defeated the better cotto than mayweather. The truth is both guys never beat him at his prime but the conditions were much better for cotto at 154 when he fought floyd.

His physical prime was before the margarito fight, from the start of his welterweight reign to margarito. While he was at his best against margarito

That is bullshit. Cotto wasnt "damaged" and then "undamaged". How convenient for people, Cotto was prime pre-Pac, not prime during-pac, prime again post-pac. wtf is wrong with you people?

When Cotto lost to Margarito, I said straight away he beats Margarito in a rematch. He fought the wrong fight, no clinch, didnt move around, traded too much and possibly fought a guy with bricks in his hands. Everyone jumped off the Cotto bandwagon, even going as far as to saying Foreman beats him. I called that he would beat Foreman easy, different class, lo and behold. Then he goes on to beat Mayorga, a non-bricked Margarito who was definitely damaged by Pac (the eye) and suddenly he's better again? I called that Cotto would give Floyd a tough fight straight after he got demolished by pac, most would disagree, and look what happens.

This is what I mean about fickle fans. No foresight, they just go with whats in at that moment. Oh that fighter lost, his past it, oh that fighter won, he's prime again. How about analysing the whole situation. You could tell what kind of state Cotto was in way back. He employed a different tactic to beating Margarito, one he should have used first fight and of course he got a helping hand from the damage Margarito took. Foreman and Mayorga he would have always beaten at any stage of his career. And he would have given Floyd that same trouble at any stage of his career.

Styles makes fights. If you're there to get hit against Pac, you're going down. Mosley has an iron chin, the mofo got dropped hard and ran the whole fight. Now Cotto didnt exactly have the best defense in the world, you really, genuinely think that the "prime" Cotto who got cornered and bullied by Margarito and hit easily would have done any better against Pac? If anything he may have done worse, at least he fought more safety first after the Margarito fight thus maybe saving him from further damage against Pac. Styles makes fights and Cotto never had the chin to withstand Pac's punches nor the defense to avoid them.

Everyone brings up "mental issues", what possible mental issues could Cotto have had that would have caused negative effects in the Pacquiao fight? More safety first? LOL. Cotto with a war cap on confident he could trade would have been worse. Jump on the "mental problems" bandwagon, acting like your a psychologist for athletes.

[lufcrazy]

How can anyone vote for Margo?

Mab was just about prime though coming off a gift over Morales.

Jmm, Bradley, Hatton, cotto, clottey, Diaz, ledwaba were all prime fighters.

I scored all 3 fights to jmm though and I make him a favourite to take this one. Pacs own prime probably ended with clottey so I'd say him and jmm are equally post prime.

His slip has been quite dramatic, he's still one of the best p4p but just a couple of year ago he was seen as a buzzsaw like wrecking machine. Shame him and Floyd didn't fight after Pac beat clottey and Floyd beat shane, that would have been perfect.