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Old 12-01-2012, 12:31 AM   #16
JMP
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

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Agree with all of this. The stoppage probably depends on the amount of body work he'll be able to put in before the fight goes into the final rounds. Cotto's biggest issue is that he won't be able to use is jab to make his way inside. He uses pressure in the mold of a boxer-puncher, behind is jab, not a swarmer like Chavez or Duran who uses waist-movements and counters. Against a tall southpaw, it will be hard to get his jab going against Trout's longer jab, so all he has left is his right hand to lead with from the outside. But Cotto is so good at changing the range and moving laterally, that I suspect he'll start finding his way in and out easily while controlling the center. Trout is also going to try and control the center, he's alluded to doing things Floyd didn't, and that's likely one of them. But Cotto simply has more experience in that regard. The southpaw angles also worry me because Cotto seems to be bending his head past his leg like Steward was teaching him not to do, but then again, it's an appropriate type of crouch when on the inside. As long as Cotto keeps his guard mixed and stays upright enough, no sneaky southpaw uppercuts are going to catch him coming in. But I expect Trout to try different things behind his jab as Cotto comes in and have success in the early rounds. If Cotto can trick him into making him lead and step towards Trout's left while shooting the straight down the pipe, then I think he'll make Trout more hesitant to throw and open up avenues for Cotto to advance and find more angles for his head and body attack.
Good stuff. I'm really anxious to see how much success he has with the right hand lead and straight right in general as well as how he fares fighting laterally against a bigger, rangy southpaw with speed.

Do you think Cotto will attempt to knock Trout's right jab down with his left the way Ward and Hopkins do against southpaws? If he can do that, I could see him timing jabs over Trout's, even with the height difference if he's not ridiculously far outside. I think that would help him discourage Trout from throwing the jab and would allow him to do more damage on the inside. I wonder if he'll be able to get any countering done with his left hand against Trout's jab as well - maybe slipping it to the right and ripping with the left to the body or a left hook up top.

I've noticed the same thing about Cotto's stance that you have. It looked most fundamentally sound against Yuri Foreman and in the early going of the Margarito fight. Against Mayorga (even with Steward) and Mayweather, he's been kind of in that leaning forward stance where he's putting more weight on his front-foot. Although I don't think it's been as pronounced as it used to be when he was fighting Judah, Margarito in 2008, Clottey, etc. I'd love to see him look like he was against Foreman. Everything just looked so smooth, relaxed, and re-tooled.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

Trout has a good shot at winning this one but Cotto came 100% prepared. Not only does pedro know how to come up with a plan a, b and c but he knows how to build the strongest possible 154lb Cotto. Not only has Cotto improved mentally and technically under the wing of his new trainer, but physically as well. Expect a great performance from both fighters. Trout has never felt power like Miguel Cotto
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:47 AM   #18
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

"Come prepared for the fight of your life, because you are going to face the fighter of your life"
-Miguel Cotto
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:52 AM   #19
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

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Trout has a good shot at winning this one but Cotto came 100% prepared. Not only does pedro know how to come up with a plan a, b and c but he knows how build the strongest possible 154lb Cotto. Not only has Cotto improved mentally and technically improved under the wing of his new trainer, but physically as well. Expect a great performance from both fighters. Trout has never felt power like Miguel Cotto
Pedro certainly makes me more confident in picking Cotto as a fan. I hadn't heard about him prior to Cotto and Steward parting ways, but Pedro's been nothing short of great for his career. He's helped to reinvigorate Cotto's passion for the sport, which seemed to be dying after he lost to Pacquiao.

And the amount of time he takes analyzing the opponent, trying to come up with detailed fight-plans, and overseeing Miguel's condition is awesome. Miguel seems to work well under his instruction, too. Just wish he would've joined forces with Pedro years back when he was in his physical prime.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:01 AM   #20
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

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Pedro certainly makes me more confident in picking Cotto as a fan. I hadn't heard about him prior to Cotto and Steward parting ways, but Pedro's been nothing short of great for his career. He's helped to reinvigorate Cotto's passion for the sport, which seemed to be dying after he lost to Pacquiao.

And the amount of time he takes analyzing the opponent, trying to come up with detailed fight-plans, and overseeing Miguel's condition is awesome. Miguel seems to work well under his instruction, too. Just wish he would've joined forces with Pedro years back when he was in his physical prime.
Hopefully we get Cotto Canelo. That would make it all well worth it!
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:03 AM   #21
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

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Hopefully we get Cotto Canelo. That would make it all well worth it!
Honestly, I'd rather see Cotto-Canelo made next year than Mayweather-Pacquiao. Can't think of too many fights I'd rather see in 2013, if any.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:11 AM   #22
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Honestly, I'd rather see Cotto-Canelo made next year than Mayweather-Pacquiao. Can't think of too many fights I'd rather see in 2013, if any.
Damn ****in right
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:30 AM   #23
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

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Good stuff. I'm really anxious to see how much success he has with the right hand lead and straight right in general as well as how he fares fighting laterally against a bigger, rangy southpaw with speed.

Do you think Cotto will attempt to knock Trout's right jab down with his left the way Ward and Hopkins do against southpaws? If he can do that, I could see him timing jabs over Trout's, even with the height difference if he's not ridiculously far outside. I think that would help him discourage Trout from throwing the jab and would allow him to do more damage on the inside. I wonder if he'll be able to get any countering done with his left hand against Trout's jab as well - maybe slipping it to the right and ripping with the left to the body or a left hook up top.

I've noticed the same thing about Cotto's stance that you have. It looked most fundamentally sound against Yuri Foreman and in the early going of the Margarito fight. Against Mayorga (even with Steward) and Mayweather, he's been kind of in that leaning forward stance where he's putting more weight on his front-foot. Although I don't think it's been as pronounced as it used to be when he was fighting Judah, Margarito in 2008, Clottey, etc. I'd love to see him look like he was against Foreman. Everything just looked so smooth, relaxed, and re-tooled.
You've read my mind JMP. From the mitt workouts I've seen him doing with Diaz, I think Cotto's prepared to do just that; paw, paw, then forcefully knock the jab down and step into his own jab while circling left. I think making Trout lead at first and lean in will be conducive to forcing Trout's weight on the front foot, making it easier for Cotto to then step into his jab and circle while pressing.

He can also shoot the straight right to the body down low, the angle for that is usually there from any position against a Southpaw, and it helps that Cotto's the smaller man in that regard, and Trout's unlikely to use combinations to the body as a repellent, so the passage to duck low and counter will be open.

Foreman is exactly what I had in mind; the guard was around the chin, not up around the eyes, his feet were bringing him everywhere he needed to go without wasting energy, and his stance was in harmony with every punch. I think on the outside, he'll adopt that strategy, and then tighten up in a crouch once he's close. That's a great example of Cotto dictating the pace and range of the fight fluidly despite the disparity in height.

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Pedro certainly makes me more confident in picking Cotto as a fan. I hadn't heard about him prior to Cotto and Steward parting ways, but Pedro's been nothing short of great for his career. He's helped to reinvigorate Cotto's passion for the sport, which seemed to be dying after he lost to Pacquiao.

And the amount of time he takes analyzing the opponent, trying to come up with detailed fight-plans, and overseeing Miguel's condition is awesome. Miguel seems to work well under his instruction, too. Just wish he would've joined forces with Pedro years back when he was in his physical prime.
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Hopefully we get Cotto Canelo. That would make it all well worth it!
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:35 AM   #24
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

I think he loses..

Cotto's done shit above 147.

I don't see the appeal of the guy.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:39 AM   #25
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

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I think he loses..

Cotto's done shit above 147.

I don't see the appeal of the guy.
Good thing your personal feelings have everything to do with the dynamic of Miguel Cotto and Austin Trout. Oh wait.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:15 AM   #26
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

Cotto beats Trout like he beat Yuri Foreman. Trout has the look of a man who knows he's already lost.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:17 AM   #27
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

Trout gonna put on a clinic on this overhyped mess
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:19 AM   #28
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

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I believe he's beaten every fighter taller than him except for Floyd.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:22 AM   #29
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

Il say cotto split decision. But I can see this being similar to the Clottey fight where he is dragged into a hellish war which he is lucky to get away with
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:24 AM   #30
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Default Re: who wins cotto or trout and why????

I am not sure. similar to the Yuri Foreman fight maybe just closer in scores.
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