Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-05-2012, 12:03 AM   #1
liljp361
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,666
vCash: 1000
Default Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

liljp361 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-05-2012, 12:38 AM   #2
WatchfortheHook
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,972
vCash: 1894
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

Yes and no.

Kelly really did give him a career altering beating that you knew Miranda would never be the same when it happened.

However, Miranda was obviously quite limited and was never going to be a great fighter.
WatchfortheHook is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 12:42 AM   #3
kirk
C1
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ill swallow my Blood before i swallow my Pride
Posts: 25,149
vCash: 1001
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

No, even as a fan of Miranda I have to say it was simply Mirandas own ability level that kept him from the upper levels of boxing.

I dont believe the Pavlik fight, as bad as it was, kept Miranda from doing anything he would have otherwise done.
kirk is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 12:46 AM   #4
WatchfortheHook
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,972
vCash: 1894
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk View Post
No, even as a fan of Miranda I have to say it was simply Mirandas own ability level that kept him from the upper levels of boxing.

I dont believe the Pavlik fight, as bad as it was, kept Miranda from doing anything he would have otherwise done.


You said it better than I did.
WatchfortheHook is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 12:48 AM   #5
D_Andrade
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
Posts: 780
vCash: 75
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

Neither were the same after that fight!
D_Andrade is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 12:51 AM   #6
Big Red
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,206
vCash: 1036
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

Pavlik destroyed a lot of boxers, take a look at the guys Pavlik knocked out that were never knocked out before. And then look at what they did after fighting Pavlik.
Big Red is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 12:54 AM   #7
MidniteProwler
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,027
vCash: 500
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

Prime Pavlik was a beast
MidniteProwler is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 01:22 AM   #8
WatchfortheHook
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,972
vCash: 1894
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

Come to think of it..circumstance might have hurt Miranda's chances at accomplishments more than anything else.

What if he got to Taylor before facing Pavlik? With Taylor having stamina issues at the time, combined with the fact that Taylor didn't KO anyone legitimately from 2006-2012(Nicklow stoppage was BS), it adds the possibility the Miranda would still be around late in the fight.

Vote here!:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Also, I think he really missed out on his best chance to grab a strap at 168 when he was set up to fight Robert Stieglitz but pulled out due to sickness I believe. I will eventually do a poll on that one too.
WatchfortheHook is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 01:23 AM   #9
WatchfortheHook
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,972
vCash: 1894
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Red View Post
Pavlik destroyed a lot of boxers, take a look at the guys Pavlik knocked out that were never knocked out before. And then look at what they did after fighting Pavlik.
I tend to disagree (with the exception of Zertuche). Care to elaborate on your stance?
WatchfortheHook is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 01:29 AM   #10
Hermit
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bumfuck, Egypt
Posts: 22,194
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

P2K, now that he is no longer involved with Miranda, pretty much laid it out in a posting. He never recovered from the Pavlik fight.
Hermit is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 01:40 AM   #11
Big Red
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,206
vCash: 1036
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WatchfortheHook View Post
I tend to disagree (with the exception of Zertuche). Care to elaborate on your stance?
Taylor also did very little after the fights with Pavlik. Who was previous to fighting Pavlik giving boxers like Wright and Hopkins all they could handle. Leading up to his fight with Zertuche He fought Pierre who retired after Pavlik knocked him out for some reason. Locket also retired after Pavlik beat him.

In a short time span 5 boxers were never the same after Pavlik was done with them. There are other boxers that were never stopped until they met up with Pavlik and if you look at box rec you will see this. And after the fight with Pavlik there is a drop off in their success or a plain out retirement.
Big Red is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 01:52 AM   #12
motownsiu
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: oakland, ca usa
Posts: 3,505
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

i woulnd't say destroy but i think pavlik showed what happens usually when you bully the bully. it was suppose to be miranda pushing the pace of the fight coming foward and imposing his will not pavlik.
motownsiu is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 02:17 AM   #13
WatchfortheHook
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,972
vCash: 1894
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Red View Post
Taylor also did very little after the fights with Pavlik. Who was previous to fighting Pavlik giving boxers like Wright and Hopkins all they could handle. Leading up to his fight with Zertuche He fought Pierre who retired after Pavlik knocked him out for some reason. Locket also retired after Pavlik beat him.

In a short time span 5 boxers were never the same after Pavlik was done with them. There are other boxers that were never stopped until they met up with Pavlik and if you look at box rec you will see this. And after the fight with Pavlik there is a drop off in their success or a plain out retirement.
See, this is where I differ in opinion with Booradley on the whole Taylor thing....

After getting KTFO by Pavlik, Taylor went on to lose a close decision to Pavlik in a rematch(some think he won, I don't think he did but it was close). Then he dominated shot Jeff Lacy, and fought him aggressively. Against Froch he fought him very aggressively and was up on the scorecards before getting KTFO with 14 seconds left (possibly 14 seconds from comeback fighter of the year). When you're fighting as aggressively and as willing to pull the trigger as JT was against Froch...you're not shot or ruined. It wasn't until Abraham that JT started fighting timidly and seemed to be more focused on not gassing and seeing himself through the whole 12 rounds than winning the fight.

Now, BEFORE Pavlik, JT looked vulnerable. You can bring up Bhop and Winky but the thing is the Hopkins fights were the best fights of his career. In the eyes of many he lost to Winky. Then he proceeded to struggle quite a bit with blown up welterweights and junior middleweights. He was looking ripe for the picking in the eyes of many at the time (they just thought Miranda would be the one to do it).

As far as some of the other guys you mentioned....

Pierre HAD been KO'd before....to John Duddy (only 8 fights, tko'd in round 1) and Willie Gibbs(KO'd round 12)....that tells you all you need to know.

And just because you get stopped doesn't mean you're ruined. Zuniga suffered his first stoppage loss to Pavlik but he's still the same guy...just older.

Miranda I don't think was quite the same, but he probably wasn't going to achieve a whole lot either. His skill set was very limited but he had a huge punch....thats enough to get you by the Francisco Sierra's of the world....not the top level (usually).And it's not like his chin became utter crap (like Taylor), he only gets taken out by guys that are pretty big punchers, if you punch like Ward or Despaigne he can stand up to them. And he never really got around to fighting all that tentatively, always willing to go out on his shield.

I don't think Lockett stuck around long enough to take a "change the course of your life" beating from Pavlik (TKO'd in round 3....it obviously would have been worse had he stuck aorund for like 6 or 7 rounds). He was just a guy who worked really hard fighting at a domestic level to get a world title shot and found out he didn't belong. Some guys want to stick around for the sake of sticking around....others don't see the point in trying if they don't believe in themselves.

The only semi-relevant guy that I see the immediate for sure ruining process (Lacy-style) take place is Zertuche.
WatchfortheHook is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 02:18 AM   #14
MrMagic
Super Six
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 19,767
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

Pavlik bullied the bully, Miranda can't fight off the backfoot.
MrMagic is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 02:43 AM   #15
WatchfortheHook
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,972
vCash: 1894
Default Re: Did Pavlik destroy Mirandas career?

Speaking of all of this, I wonder what Kelly thinks about his second best win of his career?

"Well, the media made Miranda"

It's too bad he's had questionable management moves. I don't hate the guy even though I'm not a big fan of his or anything, but I've said multiple times that he was a nightmare of a middleweight.
WatchfortheHook is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013