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Old 12-04-2012, 06:06 AM   #16
moesizlak
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Default Re: Boxer that would be the best Bare Knuckle fighter ?

Only way you d stop Marciano on the street would be to kill him
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:47 AM   #17
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Default Re: Boxer that would be the best Bare Knuckle fighter ?

Tony Galento was a legit tough guy he regularly challenged his patron in his bar too fights the dude had serious power and chin but worst of all there was no rules he fought by even in sanctioned fights where money was on the line, possibility of losing your license or being banned even going to court if it's bad enough he lowblowed, gouged, rabbit punched, kicked, butted, elbowed everything you can think of. Wouldn't want to see how far he'd stoop in a street fight.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: Boxer that would be the best Bare Knuckle fighter ?

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Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
Tony Galento was a legit tough guy he regularly challenged his patron in his bar too fights the dude had serious power and chin but worst of all there was no rules he fought by even in sanctioned fights where money was on the line, possibility of losing your license or being banned even going to court if it's bad enough he lowblowed, gouged, rabbit punched, kicked, butted, elbowed everything you can think of. Wouldn't want to see how far he'd stoop in a street fight.
I think something like the Lou Nova fight but worse
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:13 AM   #19
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Default Re: Boxer that would be the best Bare Knuckle fighter ?

1. Dempsey
2. Tyson
3. Ali ( He'd carve you up in the streets )
4. Duran
5. Marciano
6. Foreman
7. Jimmy Braddock
8. Jack Johnson
9. Ezzard Charles
10. Jake Lomotta
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:23 AM   #20
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Default Re: Boxer that would be the best Bare Knuckle fighter ?

Lest we forget that a London Prize Rule bout included wrestling and vicious throws. Many great boxers simply would not be prepared (or able) to continue after an awkward fall. You only need observe Bernard Hopkins writhe about after a breach of the rules to see that deep aversion to foul play. For many, working the referee is their safety net.

With rules that not only allow one to commit things that would get you instantly disqualified today but open the flood gates for another skill set it utterly changes this idea of a 'fight'.

Muhammad Ali may be 6,3, 212lbs, fast, resourceful and in possession of the most impressive resume in heavyweight history, but if Jem Belcher tossed him onto his head, there's a good chance it would be game over before you've decided on salted or dry roasted nuts.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:15 AM   #21
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Default Re: Boxer that would be the best Bare Knuckle fighter ?

My pick would be Dempsey, he fought alot just to survive riding the rails and working the mines before he made it in boxing.

Don't know enough about some of the other old timers to pick them.

Picking Tyson doesn't seem a good choice for a bareknuckler, since the only proof we have of that he broke his hand right off in his streetfight. Those bareknuckle fighters trained to harden their hands and skin which modern fighters don't do because of all the wrapping and gloves.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:38 AM   #22
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Default Re: Boxer that would be the best Bare Knuckle fighter ?

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Originally Posted by Ted Spoon View Post
Lest we forget that a London Prize Rule bout included wrestling and vicious throws. Many great boxers simply would not be prepared (or able) to continue after an awkward fall. You only need observe Bernard Hopkins writhe about after a breach of the rules to see that deep aversion to foul play. For many, working the referee is their safety net.

With rules that not only allow one to commit things that would get you instantly disqualified today but open the flood gates for another skill set it utterly changes this idea of a 'fight'.

Muhammad Ali may be 6,3, 212lbs, fast, resourceful and in possession of the most impressive resume in heavyweight history, but if Jem Belcher tossed him onto his head, there's a good chance it would be game over before you've decided on salted or dry roasted nuts.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:18 PM   #23
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Default Re: Boxer that would be the best Bare Knuckle fighter ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Spoon View Post
Lest we forget that a London Prize Rule bout included wrestling and vicious throws. Many great boxers simply would not be prepared (or able) to continue after an awkward fall. You only need observe Bernard Hopkins writhe about after a breach of the rules to see that deep aversion to foul play. For many, working the referee is their safety net.

With rules that not only allow one to commit things that would get you instantly disqualified today but open the flood gates for another skill set it utterly changes this idea of a 'fight'.

Muhammad Ali may be 6,3, 212lbs, fast, resourceful and in possession of the most impressive resume in heavyweight history, but if Jem Belcher tossed him onto his head, there's a good chance it would be game over before you've decided on salted or dry roasted nuts.
I think it is very arguable that LPR suits Ali better than the actual rules he fought under.

So far as wrestling goes, Ali was very strong, and was able to physically outwrestle and manhandle anyone he faced. Even all time great power based fighters like Foreman or even maybe Liston.

Ali had speed to burn. His right hand lead could be thrown as fast as most jabs, and he was able to regularly land this punch at will on great fighters on a regular basis, even in the first round before fatigue set in. Imagine the effect this would have without gloves.

Ali was probably the best improviser i have ever seen in the ring. He knew what to do to win, and despite his bravado personality, he would do anything. Rope a dope, Lead rights, Showboat, Wrestle he always adapted. His lack of body punching is a worry for this type of fight, but i have no doubt that he will use the body punch if it is required. And i have no doubt that it would be devastating.

Ali's power is underated. Without gloves it would be in the devastating term.

Ali's stamina, which is all important in LPR fights is first class and close to as good as anyones.

Ali's chin would be close to inpenatrable under the 30 sec recovery period allowed. He came back from brutal knock downs in 10 secs. The extra 30 secs could only help him.

Ali doesnt sit down on every punch. he is unlikely to break his hands because he only sits down on his punches when he knows he is landing them clean. This must be a huge advantage.

Defence. Ali had the speed and reflexes to duck dodge parry etc. Like a corbett, or a Jem Mace, he would be near impossible to catch. this would help him wear down his opponents who would be chasing him around the ring.

Contrary to popular opinion, i think Ali is one of the better suited Modern fighters of all time under LPR rules. I think he could potentially be the greatest under either ruleset.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:18 PM   #24
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Default Re: Boxer that would be the best Bare Knuckle fighter ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw View Post
1. Dempsey
2. Tyson
3. Ali ( He'd carve you up in the streets )
4. Duran
5. Marciano
6. Foreman
7. Jimmy Braddock
8. Jack Johnson
9. Ezzard Charles
10. Jake Lomotta
Ali a bare knuckle fighter? good?
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:20 PM   #25
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Default Re: Boxer that would be the best Bare Knuckle fighter ?

In addition to those already mentioned,

James J. Jeffries
Tom Sharkey
George Chuvalo
Tex Cobb
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:00 PM   #26
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Default Re: Boxer that would be the best Bare Knuckle fighter ?

If biting and low blows were more tolerated in those days, I can't see why Golata wouldn't have been formidable.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:40 AM   #27
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Default Re: Boxer that would be the best Bare Knuckle fighter ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
I think it is very arguable that LPR suits Ali better than the actual rules he fought under.

So far as wrestling goes, Ali was very strong, and was able to physically outwrestle and manhandle anyone he faced. Even all time great power based fighters like Foreman or even maybe Liston.

Ali had speed to burn. His right hand lead could be thrown as fast as most jabs, and he was able to regularly land this punch at will on great fighters on a regular basis, even in the first round before fatigue set in. Imagine the effect this would have without gloves.

Ali was probably the best improviser i have ever seen in the ring. He knew what to do to win, and despite his bravado personality, he would do anything. Rope a dope, Lead rights, Showboat, Wrestle he always adapted. His lack of body punching is a worry for this type of fight, but i have no doubt that he will use the body punch if it is required. And i have no doubt that it would be devastating.

Ali's power is underated. Without gloves it would be in the devastating term.

Ali's stamina, which is all important in LPR fights is first class and close to as good as anyones.

Ali's chin would be close to inpenatrable under the 30 sec recovery period allowed. He came back from brutal knock downs in 10 secs. The extra 30 secs could only help him.

Ali doesnt sit down on every punch. he is unlikely to break his hands because he only sits down on his punches when he knows he is landing them clean. This must be a huge advantage.

Defence. Ali had the speed and reflexes to duck dodge parry etc. Like a corbett, or a Jem Mace, he would be near impossible to catch. this would help him wear down his opponents who would be chasing him around the ring.

Contrary to popular opinion, i think Ali is one of the better suited Modern fighters of all time under LPR rules. I think he could potentially be the greatest under either ruleset.
You're not wrong, but we're touching upon some big variables here.

Ali would have to suffer body shots without gloves, alter his punching technique and face men with great wrestling experience.

He may have proven very successful, but there seems to be a resistance to the other (more likely) scenario that the best gloved heavyweights would lose (in a bare knuckle fight) to the best bare knuckle fighters.
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