Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-04-2012, 07:01 PM   #1
Jak Boxer
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 450
vCash: 500
Default Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

Pacquiao has made it pretty clear he plans to be more aggressive this time out. Honestly , it's the right gameplan. Marquez has his number - he knows every move Pacquiao makes. Pac needs to throw everything out the window, forget boxing, go in there, slug, make it a war. If he does that, he stands a good chance of hurting or knocking JMM down as he did in fights 1 and 2. He's also got a chin to withstand anything JMM throws at him, while JMM does not.

Make it ugly, make it a war. Keep the workrate high. Also stop circling into JMM right hand, but that's never going to happen.



As for JMM - do what he's done in the last 3 fights, box, circle and counter - except he needs to step it up a little this time if he wants to convince the judges. No more backing off in the final moments of the round, or giving away the late rounds.

Last edited by Jak Boxer; 12-04-2012 at 07:12 PM.
Jak Boxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-04-2012, 07:09 PM   #2
Porgeous Porge
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,227
vCash: 500
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

Pac at 2-0-1 leads me to believe to get the decision he doesnt really need to do much different

too make it easier i think it would suit him to tighten his game to prevent counters, i dont know if Pac can fight like the 1st and 2nd fight intense from bell to bell for the full 12

i actually wonder how Pac would do if he countered JMM, i know this isnt their plan but imagine if they made JMM lead and made him be the offensive fighter, Pac i think doesnt have the patience to play counter puncher with JMM but i wonder how that would go making JMM bring it to Pac

JMM to most won fight 3 so logically you gotta wonder what he needs to do different. He out boxed him last time out so you figure he has Pac's number but he didnt get the decision

JMM after this should really think about the knock out or really being aggressive and throwing more, i mean JMM has had zero luck with the judges, his counter punching style is effective but its not eye catching like Pac's

he needs to make it obvious he won in the majority of the rounds not leave them close and not become susceptible to Pac's flurries
Porgeous Porge is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 07:15 PM   #3
Boxing Fanatic
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dominican Republic
Posts: 24,111
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

jmm needs to go for broke if he wants to win this fight. u cant win a fight against pac not throwing punches. pac will keep throwing so jmms best bet is to counter him back. that pot shotting thing he did in the last fight wont work again for the judges. he needs to do what he did in 1 and 2 but avoid getting countered back.
Boxing Fanatic is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:21 PM   #4
elmaldito
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,040
vCash: 75
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

Marquez should fight the same as he did in the 3rd fight for the 1st 8 rounds. Hopefully he did more leg work this time and he wont fade in the last 4 rounds.
elmaldito is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:36 PM   #5
Jak Boxer
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 450
vCash: 500
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxing Fanatic View Post
jmm needs to go for broke if he wants to win this fight. u cant win a fight against pac not throwing punches. pac will keep throwing so jmms best bet is to counter him back. that pot shotting thing he did in the last fight wont work again for the judges. he needs to do what he did in 1 and 2 but avoid getting countered back.
JMM doesnt need to go for broke, he needs to raise his output and stop laying back in close rounds. His unwillingness to close out strong gets reflected in the scoring.

Meanwhile, Pacquiao needs to do exactly what he says he's going to do - be more aggressive. He's been too laid back lately. I don't know if he still has the stamina / mindset to do it anymore but, an aggressive, high-paced fight will always favor him.
Jak Boxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:49 PM   #6
Bogotazo
Amateur
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 14,721
vCash: 121
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

One of Manny's biggest strengths has always been being able to close the distance rapidly and awkwardly with feints that make his opponent second-guess when exactly he's about to throw. Marquez has read his feints by now, and Manny is less explosive, so if he wants to have success, his best bet is to throw 2-4 shots, feign commitment, pull back when JMM counters, and then actually commit to closing the distance once JMM has committed. But given the way Marquez takes away his angle laterally and leads on his own, which disrupts Manny's rhythm, and knows how to read his feints, Manny has a tough night ahead of him. Countering the counter puncher failed miserably for him last time, and coming forward with no variety in feints simply makes JMM's job easier. If he can find the balance and liveliness to fluidly switch between the two, he may compete better and catch an over-aggressive JMM. But I doubt it.

One maneuver that has interested me recently from Manny's training videos has been exiting out the side from under the opponent's right hand, and throwing a left after hopping all the way to his right to set it up. It's a great maneuver in theory and Manny fights from both sides well when he out-circles them, but JMM gets so low and keeps his form so tight that I doubt Manny will be prepared to weave out like that. Marquez shoots from a low angle and Manny has a hard time seeing what's coming, let alone setting up defensive maneuvers that involve bending lower than Marquez already is.
Bogotazo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 10:57 PM   #7
igor_otsky
Undefeated
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: you is you is
Posts: 6,808
vCash: 75
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
One of Manny's biggest strengths has always been being able to close the distance rapidly and awkwardly with feints that make his opponent second-guess when exactly he's about to throw. Marquez has read his feints by now, and Manny is less explosive, so if he wants to have success, his best bet is to throw 2-4 shots, feign commitment, pull back when JMM counters, and then actually commit to closing the distance once JMM has committed. But given the way Marquez takes away his angle laterally and leads on his own, which disrupts Manny's rhythm, and knows how to read his feints, Manny has a tough night ahead of him. Countering the counter puncher failed miserably for him last time, and coming forward with no variety in feints simply makes JMM's job easier. If he can find the balance and liveliness to fluidly switch between the two, he may compete better and catch an over-aggressive JMM. But I doubt it.

One maneuver that has interested me recently from Manny's training videos has been exiting out the side from under the opponent's right hand, and throwing a left after hopping all the way to his right to set it up. It's a great maneuver in theory and Manny fights from both sides well when he out-circles them, but JMM gets so low and keeps his form so tight that I doubt Manny will be prepared to weave out like that. Marquez shoots from a low angle and Manny has a hard time seeing what's coming, let alone setting up defensive maneuvers that involve bending lower than Marquez already is.
goddarnit
igor_otsky is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 11:24 PM   #8
Jak Boxer
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 450
vCash: 500
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
One of Manny's biggest strengths has always been being able to close the distance rapidly and awkwardly with feints that make his opponent second-guess when exactly he's about to throw. Marquez has read his feints by now, and Manny is less explosive, so if he wants to have success, his best bet is to throw 2-4 shots, feign commitment, pull back when JMM counters, and then actually commit to closing the distance once JMM has committed. But given the way Marquez takes away his angle laterally and leads on his own, which disrupts Manny's rhythm, and knows how to read his feints, Manny has a tough night ahead of him. Countering the counter puncher failed miserably for him last time, and coming forward with no variety in feints simply makes JMM's job easier. If he can find the balance and liveliness to fluidly switch between the two, he may compete better and catch an over-aggressive JMM. But I doubt it.

One maneuver that has interested me recently from Manny's training videos has been exiting out the side from under the opponent's right hand, and throwing a left after hopping all the way to his right to set it up. It's a great maneuver in theory and Manny fights from both sides well when he out-circles them, but JMM gets so low and keeps his form so tight that I doubt Manny will be prepared to weave out like that. Marquez shoots from a low angle and Manny has a hard time seeing what's coming, let alone setting up defensive maneuvers that involve bending lower than Marquez already is.
I don't think pacquiao should be worrying about feints this go-around; although if he does feint, and JMM takes the bait - Pacquiao needs to commit to an attack after that. He wasn't doing that in the 3rd fight.

I disagree that he "failed miserably" to counter JMM in the 3rd fight, since he did counter him successfully at various points in the fight. But ultimately that's been proven to not be the most successful strategy for him. He needs to simply go on an all out attack - don't even worry about the return shots. Take the risk that JMM's going to counter back, and keep throwing.

Pacquiao can take his shots, JMM probably can't take his best shots - that's the bottom line. I believe this is Pac's strategy going in the fight, but we'll see.


Quote:
One maneuver that has interested me recently from Manny's training videos has been exiting out the side from under the opponent's right hand, and throwing a left after hopping all the way to his right to set it up.It's a great maneuver in theory and Manny fights from both sides well when he out-circles them, but JMM gets so low and keeps his form so tight that I doubt Manny will be prepared to weave out like that.
Problem with this is JMM constantly takes the angle away from Manny by moving to the side, and Pacquiao doesn't know how to cut the ring off effectively. I don't think he's going to learn to either, so going full-on aggressive is his best bet.

Last edited by Jak Boxer; 12-04-2012 at 11:36 PM.
Jak Boxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 11:33 PM   #9
JoeCamelTow
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,960
vCash: 500
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

Pac's strategy is to stay on his feet. Don't worry the judges got this!
JoeCamelTow is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 12:35 AM   #10
PaoloMirani
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,659
vCash: 500
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

Marquez needs to fight the same, going for the ko would be bad for his health. Manny needs to fight the same too...boxer punched, not overly reckless. In other words, another close fight....and another round of bitching and moaning on who should've won.
PaoloMirani is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 03:47 AM   #11
Augustane
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 102
vCash: 75
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

Honestly I feel like Manny should've gone with Ariza's training. He should've put his 100% into his conditioning and preparing for this fight. He should've tried to maximize his punching output. Throwaway any thoughts of boxing. Just go in there and go wild.

Why?

Because he's so much damn younger, that's why. Even if Manny's on the decline, his body can take more punishment and go further than Marquez's. That's a fact. Without a doubt in my mind, if Manny fought like he did in '04 and '08, he'd have Marquez gassed out by the 6th round. Even if he takes some solid shots to the face, we all know Pacquiao has a granite chin which can endure the punishment.

If it's a boxing match, Marquez has Pacquiao's number. If it's a war, then Pacquiao (at this stage in Marquez's age) could easily walk away with a TKO victory if he decides to make it a war; which I'm disappointed to say, don't think will happen.
Augustane is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 04:46 AM   #12
Saltzy
Bam-O
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,243
vCash: 75
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

You guys saying Pacquiao should walk through Marquez's shots guns blazing is a dumb "strategy". There's a a reason Pacquiao hasn't done that since the 1st round of their 1st fight.... MARQUEZ HAS HURT PACQUIAO. This idea that Marquez doesn't have KO power is ridiculous, he has a great KO percentage not to mention hes stunned Pac on numerous occasions during their trilogy.

That's like telling Duran to go guns blazing verse Hearns because Hearns has a weak chin and Duran has a good one (Not even saying Marquez has Hearns power at all) but you get the point. When an expert counter puncher has power its not smart to get overly aggressive.
Saltzy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 05:03 AM   #13
Miguel
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

I love discussions on strategy - from these posts Augustane has hit it on the head. What let Pacquiao down in the 3rd fight was his conditioning - he looked exhausted in the last 3rd of the fight.

For Pacquiao to be more "aggressive" he needs more movement, and more punch output - i.e. his conditioning needs to be much better - whether it is we don't know - we can't tell from 24/7!!!

For Pacquiao: Better conditioning, more aggression is right, he wasn't aggressive enough. In the first fight he was too 1 dimensional and had no right, not the case now. In the 2nd I think he was too reckless and didn't show enough intelligence in his movement and defense. He's better in that regard now. In the 3rd he's a much better boxer, but his output and tempo were so much slower. So that's the key to beating Marquez - Marquez didn't hurt Pacquiao in the 3rd fight, Pacquiao would get back on balance so much better than he did before after an attack that he was never really rocked. But his punch output, combinations and movement were much more predictable. He needs to stop moving to his left after an attack or get his left up to protect him from the right counter, that's key for Marquez - Nacho has studied that. If he can move more often to Marquez's left, he'll have more success also.

For Marquez: Stop running all the time. If Marquez runs and the round is close, it's Pacquiao's so stop whining about it. He knows what the problem is, he's said so himself. So he needs to stop being the boxing equivalent of a parasite and capitalising on Pacquiao's aggression and create some of your own, then maybe the judges will score you better. The 12th round sums up why Marquez sometimes just asks for a negative judge's decision, I couldn't believe my eyes how he backed off and ran - reminded me of De La Hoya against Trinidad in some ways - why give rounds to your opponent when what you're doing already is winning you rounds. Marquez needs to hope he faces the same Pacquiao and then just initiate one or two more attacks per round - there's not much else he can do differently as he fought to his maximum in the 3rd fight in terms of conditioning and tactics except for his OTT back pedalling
Miguel is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 07:15 AM   #14
OBSERVER7421
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,049
vCash: 500
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

....the more pac becomes technical the more it will be an advantage to JMM, pac has to regain his brawlers aggression and be less predictable like the first fight
OBSERVER7421 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 07:33 AM   #15
Bogotazo
Amateur
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 14,721
vCash: 121
Default Re: Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustane View Post
Honestly I feel like Manny should've gone with Ariza's training. He should've put his 100% into his conditioning and preparing for this fight. He should've tried to maximize his punching output. Throwaway any thoughts of boxing. Just go in there and go wild.

Why?

Because he's so much damn younger, that's why. Even if Manny's on the decline, his body can take more punishment and go further than Marquez's. That's a fact. Without a doubt in my mind, if Manny fought like he did in '04 and '08, he'd have Marquez gassed out by the 6th round. Even if he takes some solid shots to the face, we all know Pacquiao has a granite chin which can endure the punishment.

If it's a boxing match, Marquez has Pacquiao's number. If it's a war, then Pacquiao (at this stage in Marquez's age) could easily walk away with a TKO victory if he decides to make it a war; which I'm disappointed to say, don't think will happen.
What is with the myth Manny can magically walk through his punches, I don't understand. Clearly that is not the case.
Bogotazo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013