Pacquiao - Marquez - Strategy

[SpeedKills]

Originally Posted by Saltzy

Pacquiao did not sweep the first 4 rounds, no freaking way. People who score on "aggressiveness" are WRONG. Its EFFECTIVE Aggression. Pacquiao's aggression clearly was not effective so thats not it.
Clean punching? Clearly Marquez.
Ring Generalship? Marquez made Pacquiao fight his fight
Defense? Both had decent defense in the fight kept output down for both fighters.

I score on punches landed, that's it.
Pacquiao did all the landing in the first 4 rd's, mainly with the counter lead left. Only rd you could give to marquez is the second, that was a close one.

[miniq]

Marquez can adapt unlike Pacquiao

Yet again you can see Roach and Pac have worked on a few things...

But knowing Marquez he will quickly adapt change and counter.

Then Pacquiao will revert to how he fought in the third fight (what he knows best) and will get countered to death with the uppercut, right hand and left hook.

[Saltzy]

Originally Posted by SpeedKills

I score on punches landed, that's it.
Pacquiao did all the landing in the first 4 rd's, mainly with the counter lead left. Only rd you could give to marquez is the second, that was a close one.

Much more to boxing then just throwing a punch.

Fighter A 2 jabs landed
Fighter B Power punch snaps Fighter A's head back

Obviously I would go with fighter B on that basic scenerio.

That being said people seem to thing Pacquiao is landing when he actually isn't because he is extremely quick. The Bradely video brought that to light. Announcers orgasming over a big left hand that actually clearly missed . Same goes for the Marquez fights.

[Outboxer]

In my opinion, Pac is the one in trouble here. Marquez just has to do what he usually does. Pac definitely has to change something, but he's caught in an awkward position. If he tries to box Marquez and make him lead it seems like he won't be able to pull it off, as seen in some of the rounds in the third fight. Marquez is able to sneak some shots in and then back off again. If he tries to be more aggressive and charge at Marquez like the old Pac then he risks walking into a big counter shot and getting hurt. He's going to struggle either way.

He's also got a chin to withstand anything JMM throws at him, while JMM does not.

I don't think that's a given. Pac has a very good chin, but Marquez has a habit of hitting him when he's off balance and least expecting it, which is why he wobbled Pac in their second fight. Pac's legs actually went for a moment, which is quite a rare sight. Even if you have a great chin you can still be hurt by the punch you don't see coming. Pac doesn't have the time to brace or shell up for all of Marquez's counterpunches, which is why he's so wary when he fights him. He knows that he'll be punished for his mistakes, and while Marquez isn't a big puncher, he does have respectable power that can stun or hurt you.

[SpeedKills]

Originally Posted by Saltzy

Much more to boxing then just throwing a punch.

Fighter A 2 jabs landed
Fighter B Power punch snaps Fighter A's head back

Obviously I would go with fighter B on that basic scenerio.

That being said people seem to thing Pacquiao is landing when he actually isn't because he is extremely quick. The Bradely video brought that to light. Announcers orgasming over a big left hand that actually clearly missed . Same goes for the Marquez fights.

lead lefts = power shot.
I do take into account the quality of the shots.

Anyway, i'll make a video of the first 4 rd's when i have the time.
He landed plenty of thudding lefts, marquez just doesn't show it.
You'll see what i mean when i post the videos.

[Saltzy]

Originally Posted by SpeedKills

lead lefts = power shot.
I do take into account the quality of the shots.

Anyway, i'll make a video of the first 4 rd's when i have the time.
He landed plenty of thudding lefts, marquez just doesn't show it.
You'll see what i mean when i post the videos.

Okay fair enough. And yes i'm aware that is Pacquio's power hand.

Also getting a video of Marquez's thudding shots in comparison or?

[jonnytightlips]

If JMM goest for broke I think he gets stopped. Pac is absolutely devastating when people go after him.

[perspicacity]

Originally Posted by perspicacity

Marquez can read Pacquiao like we read the daily newspaper.

The question for me here is has Marquez bulked up a little too much to the extent it could adversely affect his speed?

I dont think so.

It looks like Nacho and Marquez are planning on inflicting more damage on Pacquiao via athleticism and strength ................. ie - no change in strategy but emphasis on countering with more power than before. (a lot of pre-fight footage has been targeting "explosiveness" IMO)

My money is on Marquez busting Manny up more than their previous fights and getting a win this time.

Each fight has been close and of course Manny has dynamite in his fists so you can never write him off, but I will be very surprised to see any major change in tactics from Team Pacquiao.

Jesus H Christ! I didnt think Marquez would be that explosive, but I guess Pacquiao's momentum and naivety in that moment combined with Marquez's awareness and perfect timing all played an equal part in this devastating knockout.

What a fight!

[Saltzy]

I bet all of the people telling Pacquiao to walk through Marquez's punches look like fools now.

[dannylatics]

Originally Posted by Jak Boxer

Pacquiao has made it pretty clear he plans to be more aggressive this time out. Honestly , it's the right gameplan. Marquez has his number - he knows every move Pacquiao makes. Pac needs to throw everything out the window, forget boxing, go in there, slug, make it a war. If he does that, he stands a good chance of hurting or knocking JMM down as he did in fights 1 and 2. He's also got a chin to withstand anything JMM throws at him, while JMM does not.

Make it ugly, make it a war. Keep the workrate high. Also stop circling into JMM right hand, but that's never going to happen.



As for JMM - do what he's done in the last 3 fights, box, circle and counter - except he needs to step it up a little this time if he wants to convince the judges. No more backing off in the final moments of the round, or giving away the late rounds.

FAIL

[SugarShane_24]

Check the difference in his movement from the start until he scored a knockdown.

It seems like he forgot his head movement and went back to his old comeforward self gunning to finish Marquez.

Unfortunately he's the guy who got finished.

[jan_fan]

Originally Posted by Jak Boxer

Pacquiao has made it pretty clear he plans to be more aggressive this time out. Honestly , it's the right gameplan. Marquez has his number - he knows every move Pacquiao makes. Pac needs to throw everything out the window, forget boxing, go in there, slug, make it a war. If he does that, he stands a good chance of hurting or knocking JMM down as he did in fights 1 and 2. He's also got a chin to withstand anything JMM throws at him, while JMM does not.

Make it ugly, make it a war. Keep the workrate high. Also stop circling into JMM right hand, but that's never going to happen.



As for JMM - do what he's done in the last 3 fights, box, circle and counter - except he needs to step it up a little this time if he wants to convince the judges. No more backing off in the final moments of the round, or giving away the late rounds.

This is it. The fans really don't see it even until now

[jan_fan]

Originally Posted by SugarShane_24

Check the difference in his movement from the start until he scored a knockdown.

It seems like he forgot his head movement and went back to his old comeforward self gunning to finish Marquez.

Unfortunately he's the guy who got finished.

Not necessarily bro, it's not just the lack of head movements and the come forward style. Those are the minorities

There's something more of a factor not just this fight but on all of 4 fights they had.

It's how they rotate in the circle of the ring. Look at how Pac is baited by Marquez's right. This had been happening repeatedly even from the start of the first fight.