Earnie Shavers vs. James Toney

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

I'm pretty sure his reputation comes from those who felt his punches, as opposed to those who logged onto boxrec.

Every single boxer on record who felt Shavers' punches says he hit them the hardest.

The only evidence I need!

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Every single boxer on record who felt Shavers' punches says he hit them the hardest.

The only evidence I need!

Yes but these posters have logged onto boxrec so they know better than those who shared a ring with him

[rusak]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Shavers hits harder than Peter, to be sure, and Peter had Toney hanging on for dear life more then once.

He doesn't, however, have Peter's size or strength, which Peter used to overwhelm Toney's defenses regularly. IF Shavers could find the big right hand, Toney is in deep, deep trouble.

I can't say I think he would. He telegraphs and loads his right hand, and Toney's go to trick, the move he spends half of every fight doing, is rolling the shoulder to take over the right hand and immediately countering. If Shavers was deliberate with his violence, which he often was, he'd be unable to land it solid.

Toney UD. I don't think he'd pull off the kayo. He didn't hit very hard at heavyweight, and Earnie was vulnerable to being rocked and rolled by competent heavyweight punchers. Light punchers rarely if ever bothered him at all. Toney's only hope for stoppage is if Earnie gasses in totality, like he did in Holmes II.

Tell that to this guy:
[url]********boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=16104&cat=boxer[/url]

Also, Toney wasn't prime against Peter, Rahman, etc. An "in-shape" Toney is 190-220 lbs. Toney doesn't even need to be over 200 to deal with Shavers. As for his power at heavy, if he was fighting bum after cruiserweight bum like Shavers did, he'd have an excellent "heavyweight" KO ratio.

[dyna]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Every single boxer on record who felt Shavers' punches says he hit them the hardest.

The only evidence I need!

• ·[URL="***********.google.com/search?btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky&q=boxer+%22Tex+Cobb%22++site%3Aboxrec.com"]Tex Cobb[/URL]: "Nobody hits like Shavers. If anybody hit harder than Shavers, I'd shoot him."
• ·[URL="***********.google.com/search?btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky&q=boxer+%22Larry+Holmes%22++site%3Aboxrec.com"]Larry Holmes[/URL]: "Earnie hit me harder than any other fighter, including Mike Tyson. He hit me and I was face down on the canvas hearing saxophonist Jimmy Tillis."
• ·[URL="***********.google.com/search?btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky&q=boxer+%22Tex+Cobb%22++site%3Aboxrec.com"]Tex Cobb[/URL]: "Earnie could punch you in the neck with his right hand and break your ankle."
• ·[URL="***********.google.com/search?btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky&q=boxer+%22Muhammad+Ali%22++site%3Aboxrec.com"]Muhammad Ali[/URL]: "Earnie hit me so hard, he shook my kinfolk back in Africa"
• ·[URL="***********.google.com/search?btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky&q=boxer+%22Ron+Lyle%22++site%3Aboxrec.com"]Ron Lyle[/URL]: "Hey man, that's the hardest I've ever been hit in my life. And George Foreman could punch, but none of them could hit like Earnie Shavers did. When he hit you, the lights went out. I can laugh about it now, but at the time,it wasn't funny."
• ·[URL="***********.google.com/search?btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky&q=boxer+%22Ron+Lyle%22++site%3Aboxrec.com"]Ron Lyle[/URL]: "Hardest he's ever been hit: Earnie Shavers. The ground came up and met me. That's all I remember."
• ·[URL="***********.google.com/search?btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky&q=boxer+%22James+Tillis%22++site%3Aboxrec.com"]James Tillis[/URL]: "Shavers hit so hard he turned horse p*ss into gasoline! He hit me so hard he brought back tomorrow. When he hit me… I was seeing pink rats and cats and animals smoking cigarettes. I was in the land of make-believe."
• ·[URL="***********.google.com/search?btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky&q=boxer+%22James+Tillis%22++site%3Aboxrec.com"]James Tillis[/URL]: "The baddest motherf*cker I fought was Earnie Shavers. That motherf*cker can make July into June and made me jump over the motherf*ckin' moon. That motherf*cker hit so hard, he'll bring back tomorow. He hit me so hard, I thought I was on the corner smoking cigarette and eating a spam sandwich. That's how hard that motherf*cker hit."

These are some of the most funny boxing quotes you will ever read, but fun and legends aside:
EVERYONE of these guys was NOT KO'ed by Shavers. They all won against Shavers.

[lufcrazy]

Boxrec warriors

[dyna]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Boxrec warriors

The people who said Shavers hit them the hardest... how does it come they all won against Shavers?

Protip:He wasn't the strongest puncher ever.

[rusak]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Every single boxer on record who felt Shavers' punches says he hit them the hardest.

The only evidence I need!

It's possible that that's true. Or maybe it's just self-serving propaganda from guys who beat Shavers.

Holmes said Shavers hit harder than Tyson but the results of those fights tell a different story. Tyson iced Holmes, whereas Holmes was able to get up after taking Shavers' best shot. Isn't it self-serving for Holmes to prop up Shavers? Thus, he can claim to have two wins over "the hardest puncher ever" while also being able to claim that he was old and past it against Tyson. If he said that Tyson hit harder than Shavers, it might make it seem like Tyson might have iced Holmes at any point in Holmes' career.

[Absolutely!]

Was watching the Mitchell Banks fight recently and think that also gives us quite a good idea of how Toney does against Shavers. Doubt the fight is quite that one sided however, but I would not fancy Shavers chances here, I don't care how hard he (supposedly) punched.

[Webbiano]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Shavers hits harder than Peter, to be sure, and Peter had Toney hanging on for dear life more then once.

He doesn't, however, have Peter's size or strength, which Peter used to overwhelm Toney's defenses regularly. IF Shavers could find the big right hand, Toney is in deep, deep trouble.

I can't say I think he would. He telegraphs and loads his right hand, and Toney's go to trick, the move he spends half of every fight doing, is rolling the shoulder to take over the right hand and immediately countering. If Shavers was deliberate with his violence, which he often was, he'd be unable to land it solid.

Toney UD. I don't think he'd pull off the kayo. He didn't hit very hard at heavyweight, and Earnie was vulnerable to being rocked and rolled by competent heavyweight punchers. Light punchers rarely if ever bothered him at all. Toney's only hope for stoppage is if Earnie gasses in totality, like he did in Holmes II.

Did you ever get to spar with Toney at heavyweight?

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by dyna

The people who said Shavers hit them the hardest... how does it come they all won against Shavers?

Protip:He wasn't the strongest puncher ever.

I believe Norton, who was blown out in 1 by Shavers, also said that Earnie hit him hardest.

[diesel]

Originally Posted by rodney

Look. Toney owned Holifield. Holifield would own Shavers. These guys would have been way too fast, skilled, and just plain too good for Shavers. They also had way better chins. Shavers wouldn't hit either in the ass.

ummmmm holyfield was 41 yrs old when he fought toney thats hardley prime bro

[Boilermaker]

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

I would favour the best Toney by decision. I mean, sure, Mythical Shavers, much like Tokyo Douglas, would murder Toney inside three. But the real one, not likely so much.

Do you think mythical Shavers or tokyo Douglas murder the 'in-shape' heavyweight Toney?

[PhillyPhan69]

Shavers stops Toney in 3-5

[Lord Tywin]

Toney would beat Shavers. Different class.

Who did Shavers ever beat that wasnt completely shot or completely green?

When your two best prime wins are Henry Clark and Tiger Williams, who Shavers was a hair from losing to, it doesnt speak well for your class against a well schooled, durable, champion with class.

I dont care about the size difference because Shavers wouldnt hit Toney with a hand full of salt.

Another thing is Toney loved right hand punchers. He would hide behind shoulder, lean way back and make you over commit then when you did he would counter with his own straight right and bring a quick left hook over the top. Shavers would be out of his depth against Toney.

[Lord Tywin]

Originally Posted by dyna

Shavers had 90+ fights (that's a lot).

But when you check whether he is a genuine KO'er or a cherry-picker


If you exclude all opponents who have been KO'ed before
and all opponents who had a loss within 1 year of their encounter with Shavers (a typical thing for cherry-pickers)
it turns out that Shavers

KO'ed only 10 guys (median weight 201 lbs)
of which 8 guys were bums (like ·Young Agabab 0-1, 196 lbs, or ·Steve Carter 15-7, 190 lbs)
and only 2 were somewhat good: ·Howard Smith (17-2, 202 lbs) and ·Tony Perea (KO7) (16-1, 206 lbs).

THAT's Shavers' KO record in a nutshell.

For a guy with 90+ wins this is disappointing.

Shavers also did a lot of head holding and uppercutting / headbutting / low blows
See Joe Bugner fight.

I dont know if I agree with your logic but I agree with your point. Dean Chance created the Shavers myth by matching him a steady diet of bums.

He could hit hard, I dont dispute that, but if you dont have a missile to get the warhead to the target its pretty meaningless. Shavers didnt have much of a missile.

He had basic skills, horrible stamina, an average chin at best, absolutely no plan B, no speed, and wasnt even brutishly strong. Just having a big punch with all of those negatives will only get you so far. Its why he could never win the big ones.