Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Among the small handful of things that are truly and vastly overrated on this forum... Marciano's power and the fragility of Waldo's chin.

The latter more than the former.

It's never been a matter of Wlad's chin as much as his mental toughness when it comes to taking punches.

[Sardu]

I don't think Marciano ever gets the chance to consistently work inside here. The Ukrainian's pulverizing jab and adept foot movement make it impossible for Marciano to find his rythum.

Wlad on cuts in the 8th round.

[groove]

rocky will have to watch the low blows - his uppercut could be a one punch ender lol.

[fists of fury]

Originally Posted by Seamus

guys who have faced a non-stop succession of full-sized modern heavies with the sort of blistering power that has become the norm in the division.

Blistering power? Where? Since taking the title, Wlad has faced two punchers, Haye & Peter, and neither are genuine knockout artists either. (Sanders if you count the WBO(gus) strap.
Unless of course you mean the murderer's row of Ray Austin, Eddie Chambers, Chris Byrd and Tony Thompson. And the ever-dangerous Mormeck. (Almost forgot about this ATG puncher.)

[OvidsExile]

14 pages of people talking about Marciano's stamina and power, but nobody has said that he would simply outbox Klitschko. Nobody talks about his blinding speed, his ability to slip punches, or his nimble footwork. Seems like Rocky's only path to victory rests on his ability to land a bomb and for Klitschko to not be able to take it. But if Rocky's power is overrated, or Klitschko's chin is underrated plan A goes out the window. Is there a plan B or is that his only hope?

[HOUDINI]

Muscle and size are not boxing. Once again boxing history is full of big fighters totally destroyed by smaller, better fighters. Walcott did not bounce off the ropes into Rockys right hand. You cannot wish away three beyond brutal ko losses. Great fighters do not lose three times in this manner. Wlad does not have the courage of a great fighter nor does he have the chin.

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by fists of fury

Blistering power? Where? Since taking the title, Wlad has faced two punchers, Haye & Peter, and neither are genuine knockout artists either. (Sanders if you count the WBO(gus) strap.
Unless of course you mean the murderer's row of Ray Austin, Eddie Chambers, Chris Byrd and Tony Thompson. And the ever-dangerous Mormeck. (Almost forgot about this ATG puncher.)

And Peter is more of a clubber than anything. Haye has power, but he's not one punch genuine when it comes to HW (Not even really at CW).

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by fists of fury

Blistering power? Where? Since taking the title, Wlad has faced two punchers, Haye & Peter, and neither are genuine knockout artists either. (Sanders if you count the WBO(gus) strap.
Unless of course you mean the murderer's row of Ray Austin, Eddie Chambers, Chris Byrd and Tony Thompson. And the ever-dangerous Mormeck. (Almost forgot about this ATG puncher.)

Today's heavyweights are bigger and stronger. Bigger and stronger means, on average, harder hitters, stronger operators in the clinch. Is this debatable? Should we abolish weight divisions because the above is not true?

Thompson had very good clout. Brewster could do little else but hit like a tank. Brock had decent power. McCline could punch. Even at 35, Rahman could still punch.

A murderer's row? No. But on average harder hitters than Marciano faced.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

Muscle and size are not boxing. Once again boxing history is full of big fighters totally destroyed by smaller, better fighters. Walcott did not bounce off the ropes into Rockys right hand. You cannot wish away three beyond brutal ko losses. Great fighters do not lose three times in this manner. Wlad does not have the courage of a great fighter nor does he have the chin.

Only once wad he brutally knocked out. The other times he gassed.

History is full of upsets where a smaller man beats the bigger man but it's even more full of bigger men beating smaller men.

Would jimmy Wilde beat margarito? The answer is no he wouldn't.

Weight classes are there for a reason and that's why this fight would never be sanctioned for a start.

[PetethePrince]

Some proper backtracking there. That's good. This infatuation with power, though; power always gets over-emphasized just as fighters with power get over-hyped. Yeah, they're bigger and stronger. Rocco couldn't run Wlad's schedule due to style, but let's not act like he wouldn't be favored over the lot. I mean, those fighters are totally underwhelming. Thompson is awkward and can box, and Brewster is respectable. The rest are just dreadful. Let's not try to prop up Brock and Thompson's punching power, either.

Could half of these HWs with blistering power set up a fight ending power shot to save their lives? No. Yeah Wlad beats Rocky, but that discussion is not what is getting traction exactly.

[lufcrazy]

For the record I too would favour rocky over wlads opponents.

Mostly due to their physicality as they haven't trained for a hard 12 rounds so rocky has a good chance of wearing them down.

Byrd, Haye, Chagaev and Iggy have the best chance but none would I favour over the Rock.

I just can't see Rocky ever winning against Wlad. He's just too small.

[SuzieQ49]

Seamus,

If he would struggle in later heavyweight eras with the big skilled/powerful men, What in your opinion then makes Marciano the great sub 190lb head to head fighter who ever lived then? Do they simply not have the physical advantages needed to stop the rings ultimate animal?

[orriray59]

I mean, look at it this way. David Haye, a 6'3 man, weighing 210lbs with 78" inch arms, failed to consistently reach Wlad.
A man who was fast, explosive, powerful, etc. Yet he still couldn't get to Wladimir.

So, how exactly will Marciano get to him?

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

Seamus,

If he would struggle in later heavyweight eras with the big skilled/powerful men, What in your opinion then makes Marciano the great sub 190lb head to head fighter who ever lived then? Do they simply not have the physical advantages needed to stop the rings ultimate animal?

I think in a one-off fight Marciano has a chance against most any heavy (though probably not Wlad or Lewis). However, if he fought his career in the past couple decades, with each opponent being of the likes (size and power) that a Lennox Lewis faced, I think he would simply break down physically and probably get sparked once or twice. He suffered enough wear and tear in his short career against the modern equivalent of light heavies and cruisers.

[fists of fury]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Today's heavyweights are bigger and stronger. Bigger and stronger means, on average, harder hitters, stronger operators in the clinch. Is this debatable? Should we abolish weight divisions because the above is not true?

Thompson had very good clout. Brewster could do little else but hit like a tank. Brock had decent power. McCline could punch. Even at 35, Rahman could still punch.

A murderer's row? No. But on average harder hitters than Marciano faced.

Bigger & stronger doesn't necessarily mean harder puncher though. Earlier tonight I watched Pulev vs Ustinov...jab aside, Pulev punches all wrong. His left hook is a wide, slapping punch and he doesn't put his shoulder into his right hand.
Now he may be bigger and stronger than Walcott (well, he is, no debate there) but Walcott could deliver a left hook with torque and leverage behind it. It was a short, sharp punch, as a hook should be.
Frankly, I'd rather be hit by Pulev than Walcott.

Wlad has faced some hitters fair enough, but to insinuate simply because Thompson or McCline are big and therefor big punchers (or rather, dangerous punchers) is wrong, imo.