Holmes (early 80s) vs. Ali (late 60s)

[Garrus]

[OvidsExile]

Originally Posted by Addie

I think Holmes is more successful against a more stationary Ali, which is what we had after his exile. I think the fleet footed Ali of the 60s, is effective at creating angles on Holmes, who was all a bit one dimensional with the way he came on the offensive. Both had great jabs, Ali having the slight edge in handspeed, but it's the intangibles that make him the winner in my book. Ali just seemed to be on a higher plane to everyone else when it came to will, heart, and determination. He always went the extra inch, which is why I think he gets out a closely fought decision.

Agreed. Neither hit hard enough to dent the others chin so the thing comes down to points. Ali had better stamina, speed, and ring IQ. Therefore, he'd beat Larry to the punch, throw more punches, and score more points. If he felt he lost a round he was smart enough to come out and hustle enough to steal the next one or two. Larry would let rounds go by sometimes doing very little and that's where Ali beats him.

[Boxed Ears]

Originally Posted by OvidsExile

Agreed. Neither hit hard enough to dent the others chin so the thing comes down to points. Ali had better stamina, speed, and ring IQ. Therefore, he'd beat Larry to the punch, throw more punches, and score more points. If he felt he lost a round he was smart enough to come out and hustle enough to steal the next one or two. Larry would let rounds go by sometimes doing very little and that's where Ali beats him.

Yeah, Ali certainly never did that.

[bazza12]

Ali is much quicker on his feet, and I don't particularly rate Holmes' footwork. He could cut off the ring when necessary, but he would find himself lashed time and again whenever he got Ali where he wanted him.

Although Holmes' jab was in my opinion his greatest offensive and defensive trait, Ali had little to no problem dancing around Liston's jab, and many rate that extremely highly.

I pick Ali by a pretty clear decision.

[diesel]

Originally Posted by DrBanzai

Prime Ali beats prime Holmes in a lopsided decision possibly a late ko.

Ali wins: 12 rounds to 3

agreed

[TheSouthpaw]

Well considering what Ali did to Holmes and Witherspoon when they were sparring partners around 77 or 78..Ali in the 60's completely exposes Holmes. I see TKO by the 6th.

[TheSouthpaw]

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Ali training

[MAG1965]

what a fight. Larry was so fluid and quick but he was flat footed compared to Ali. Although I think Larry has a better jab than Ali, so it would be Ali moving a little and giving more angles and landing quicker combinations to Larry trying to jab and set up the right hand and win the rounds with his jab. Ali is too quick to lose too many rounds to Larry.

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw

Well considering what Ali did to Holmes and Witherspoon when they were sparring partners around 77 or 78..Ali in the 60's completely exposes Holmes. I see TKO by the 6th.

Considering Holmes was only Ali's sparring partner from 71 until 75, I'm pretty sure the only thing Holmes and Ali were doing in 77 or 78 was continuing being the friends that they were.

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw

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Ali training

Towards the end of that video it shows Holmes doing well against Ali in sparring in 1974.

[dinovelvet]

I dont see Ali knocking out Holmes. He had a great chin, was only ever down 4 times in his whole career and only stopped once by Tyson.

[Stevie G]

I've always been of the opinion that the Ali of 1964-74 beats a prime Holmes by decision. Obviously the early seventies incarnation does it by a narrower margin. A lot of it would come down to speed,of which even the 32 year old Ali of 1974 had more of,imo.

[PhillyPhan69]

Originally Posted by Stevie G

I've always been of the opinion that the Ali of 1964-74 beats a prime Holmes by decision. Obviously the early seventies incarnation does it by a narrower margin. A lot of it would come down to speed,of which even the 32 year old Ali of 1974 had more of,imo.

You sound like an Ali PR representitive....Out of curiosity, have you ever been of the opinion that someone could beat a PRIME ali???

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69

You sound like an Ali PR representitive....Out of curiosity, have you ever been of the opinion that someone could beat a PRIME ali???

Yeah. Cassius Clay



Seriously,anyone can be beaten on a given night. These topics ask who we would start as FAVOURITE in hypothetical fights. No doubt you have your own selection whom you would back to win more than they would lose.

[PhillyPhan69]

Originally Posted by Stevie G

Yeah. Cassius Clay



Seriously,anyone can be beaten on a given night. These topics ask who we would start as FAVOURITE in hypothetical fights. No doubt you have your own selection whom you would back to win more than they would lose.

I assume bias does come into play, even though I try and guard against it....I personally don't like Ali (As a frazier/Philly guy I am pretty certain that, that is illegle anyway)...but I don't think I overly favor guys that I like (Outside of eubank whom I am always in the minority picking).

I rate Ali # 2 ATG and although I have never really done an ATG hypothetical H2H list, he would probably be top 3 and definately top 5...I favor only Frazier, Marciano & Louis over Ali (Due to styles...Louis is the only guy I call greater)...I see this fight as 50/50 and only voted Holmes because I figured very few others would. I think this is about as close a fight as their is to call (well along with Frazier/Marciano and Liston/Foreman).