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Old 12-06-2012, 11:23 AM   #1
Vidic
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Default For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

Out of their 3 previous matchups, I'e scored all 3 for Juan. The third and last time they fought, I was worried for him , I thought his age and the weight would be a factor, and I have to admit despite being a great lover of his (not in the manner that Japanese guy was rumored to be) I underestimated him, and I think so did a lot of people.

He pulled off a cultured performance and should have gotten the win when he had pretty much all the odds stacked against him.

One thing I always worried about their rematches was that eventually, at some point, no matter his skills, age has to catch up with him. At some point he will be too slow for Manny, he will be too old and he won't have enough stamina. It's only logical

Now ahead of the fourth fight, expectations are reversed, he's roundly expected to win, some even suggesting some kind of stoppage (a disservice to Pac imo), but still, he's another year or two older, yet, he's a possible favourite amongst fans even if not the bookies.

From my own POV this match doesn't do much for him one way or another, I have him already beating a prime Pacquiao twice and getting a win over Pac when Juan should have been way way out of his prime, he'd get an official win yes, and that could be something big for him, but in my eyes, nothing much will change, and I dont think much will change in the eyes of fans either

Unless he has finally started to really decline and Pac manages to get an (indisputable) victory over him

It's really an answer to the question of whether or not this fight does anything for his legacy

For the record: I think he will win, again
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:41 AM   #2
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

It's hard to say. In terms of what it'll 'do for him', I suppose most casual fans only see the losses on his record against Pacquiao. Many of them wouldn't realise that he's actually never really lost to Pacquiao. But then that comes down to whether the opinion of the general public matters to JMM. I doubt it. In his eyes it's probably unfinished business on a personal level. It is dangerous for him. At nearly 40, you can age overnight, and he could find himself outmatched in a hurry. Looking at the condition he got himself into for this fight though, I don't think that's going to happen. I can see your viewpoint, but I can also see it as a nothing to lose situation for Juan. If he wins he gets the recognition from all quarters that serious boxing fans already know he deserves, and if he loses badly it'll be fairly obvious age has caught up with him and it's time to hang them up.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:42 AM   #3
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

Yea I agree, but his legacy is secured. I think its more of a personal thing. And well $$$ too as their 3rd match did much better than what Uncle Bob was expecting. Pac- Bradley did something like 700,000-800,000 ppvs while Marquez-Pac III did around 1.2-1.3 mil almost doubling it thanks to Juan's rising popularity.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:46 AM   #4
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

Agree with you here.

The one thing is he does not have a Win written in ink against Pac. That is what drives him nuts. Pac is considered one of the best of our generation yet JMM feels he has beaten him 3 times already and not gotten the credit he truly deserves.

In my eyes he did not need to take this fight as I also gave him all 3.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:46 AM   #5
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

true. he has nothing to prove to anyone really. the only true loss he has was with money and aint a shame losing to the best. other than that, he's won it all clearly in my eyes. no one has ever issued an ass whoopin on marquez except one.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:49 AM   #6
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

My views onthe subject....

Marquez has never had the fastest hands, the fastest feet, god like Stamina, Or amazing Power. He just does his thing and it works.

Pac Man Relies heavily on his Speed, Power, and Stamina, but in boxing terms is not the most amazing Pure boxer. He makes a lot of Mistakes. He does Amazingly well with what he has, but its not a style that he can adapt when he loses his speed and stamina.

The reason Marquez won the third fight in stronger fasion (In my opinion) is because Pac man is slipping in all areas, and because he doesnt have the skill set to adapt (he is more of a pattern fighter than an adaptive fighter), Marquez looked better than ever.

Marquez on the other hand has his amazing Skill set, therfore more logetivity as a fighter.

In my opinion Pacs the one that is a ticking time bomb in regards to age. His fighting style can only take him so far in terms of age.

IMO much like Roy Jones. I would say 80% of what he brought to the table was pure athleticism. Now that hes lost this he is a shell of what he used to be.

Prediction.....

Marquez by UD.... for the 4th time!!
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:54 AM   #7
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin' Joe View Post
It's hard to say. In terms of what it'll 'do for him', I suppose most casual fans only see the losses on his record against Pacquiao. Many of them wouldn't realise that he's actually never really lost to Pacquiao. But then that comes down to whether the opinion of the general public matters to JMM. I doubt it. In his eyes it's probably unfinished business on a personal level. It is dangerous for him. At nearly 40, you can age overnight, and he could find himself outmatched in a hurry. Looking at the condition he got himself into for this fight though, I don't think that's going to happen. I can see your viewpoint, but I can also see it as a nothing to lose situation for Juan. If he wins he gets the recognition from all quarters that serious boxing fans already know he deserves, and if he loses badly it'll be fairly obvious age has caught up with him and it's time to hang them up.
According to who?

Honestly, this nonsense about JMM winning all three fights has got to stop. One of the fights, yes, that was a definite JMM win. But the other two were agonisingly close that could have gone either way. The results on paper for those fights -- a draw and a split decision -- aren't the injustices that they're made out to be by some fans. Just like the official results, to a an unknowing reader, will present the falsehood that JMM has never won, claims like the above also present the falsehood that JMM was cheated everytime he stepped in with Pac, when that's totally not the case.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:00 PM   #8
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

He has everything to gain and everything to lose. Pacman and co are merely acting as gentleman and offering him the chance to have another shot at an official win. Especially with pacs career pretty much wound up now. Pacquiao has nothing to gain from this fight.

Those saying he beat Pac every other fight can stick their head back up their asses. An official ruling is just that. You can whine about the third fight because is fairly universal opinion but 1 and 2? flogging a dead horse right there...
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

And I agree with Tibbs.

JMM, because of his superior skill-set and boxing brain, is less susceptible to suddenly ageing to the point where he'll not be able to win the fight. If there should be any concerns regarding the physical conditions of the fighters, it's Pacquiao. His game is the one that's built on speed, stamina and athleticism. Without any of that, he can't compete with a masterful technician like JMM. That's why the third fight was the only fight out of the trilogy that produced a clear winner.

Pacquiao has a lot to gain from winning this.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

I thought all the fights were close? I mean one fight JMM get knocked down 3x in 1 round... Many referees could have stopped it at that point. The same fight one of the judges scored improperly and made the difference...
Second fight he gets knocked down once, and a very close decision. 3rd fight was most impressive for Juan IMO, but Pac did throw more and land more. JMM landed the much better shots IMO, but Pac landed nice punches as well. Any of the fights *COULD HAVE* went to JMM, but anybody who says JMM won all 3 clearly... Shows there incredibly biased. I'd say the exact same to anybody who says Pac clearly won all 3 as well.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

If JMM was smart he would of retired after the 3rd match, he would have retired a martyr, who was unfairly persecuted 3x because of boxing corruption. His cloud would forever hang over Manny head and subsequently ruining Manny's career........
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

For me he has everything to gain because on my results card he will even it up to 2-2. I had Pacquio winning 1 & 2 and Marquez winning the 3rd and so this one means a lot especially if he can that official win on his record. It can be argued that he may even be dealing with a bit more pressure seeing as though most informed viewers are expecting him to win this time round.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

You scored all 3 fights for JMM...I stopped reading there .
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin' Joe View Post
It's hard to say. In terms of what it'll 'do for him', I suppose most casual fans only see the losses on his record against Pacquiao. Many of them wouldn't realise that he's actually never really lost to Pacquiao. But then that comes down to whether the opinion of the general public matters to JMM. I doubt it. In his eyes it's probably unfinished business on a personal level. It is dangerous for him. At nearly 40, you can age overnight, and he could find himself outmatched in a hurry. Looking at the condition he got himself into for this fight though, I don't think that's going to happen. I can see your viewpoint, but I can also see it as a nothing to lose situation for Juan. If he wins he gets the recognition from all quarters that serious boxing fans already know he deserves, and if he loses badly it'll be fairly obvious age has caught up with him and it's time to hang them up.
I can see both perspectives. As a fan, having scored the 3 fights for JMM, a loss like this will be his first real, definitive loss, but it will be one more damn loss on his record, making it seem like Manny always had the edge, when the opposite is most likely true. If he loses, it will be an indicator he should hang them up, but the storm of Pactards and the way history might remember things could sting as time goes by.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:45 PM   #15
Smokin' Joe
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Default Re: For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
According to who?

Honestly, this nonsense about JMM winning all three fights has got to stop. One of the fights, yes, that was a definite JMM win. But the other two were agonisingly close that could have gone either way. The results on paper for those fights -- a draw and a split decision -- aren't the injustices that they're made out to be by some fans. Just like the official results, to a an unknowing reader, will present the falsehood that JMM has never won, claims like the above also present the falsehood that JMM was cheated everytime he stepped in with Pac, when that's totally not the case.
Where did I say JMM's won all three fights?

I was making the point that what most casual fans would see is 2 losses and a draw against Pacquiao on his resume. The vast majority most likely wouldn't realise how close those fights were and that he could have easily been given the nod in any of them.

Way to preach though.
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