For me, Marquez kind of has everything to lose in this matchup

[Uncle Rico]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Joe

Where did I say JMM's won all three fights?

I was making the point that what most casual fans would see is 2 losses and a draw against Pacquiao on his resume. The vast majority most likely wouldn't realise how close those fights were and that he could have easily been given the nod in any of them.

Way to preach though.

Right before you edited the post, I think I saw something which either read JMM won all three or Pacquiao lost all three. Hence why I felt the need to preach. If that's not what you said, then my bad. But my point still stands with other people that believe it.

[floyd_g.o.a.t]

Originally Posted by Mrtibbs

My views onthe subject....

Marquez has never had the fastest hands, the fastest feet, god like Stamina, Or amazing Power. He just does his thing and it works.

Pac Man Relies heavily on his Speed, Power, and Stamina, but in boxing terms is not the most amazing Pure boxer. He makes a lot of Mistakes. He does Amazingly well with what he has, but its not a style that he can adapt when he loses his speed and stamina.

The reason Marquez won the third fight in stronger fasion (In my opinion) is because Pac man is slipping in all areas, and because he doesnt have the skill set to adapt (he is more of a pattern fighter than an adaptive fighter), Marquez looked better than ever.

Marquez on the other hand has his amazing Skill set, therfore more logetivity as a fighter.

In my opinion Pacs the one that is a ticking time bomb in regards to age. His fighting style can only take him so far in terms of age.

IMO much like Roy Jones. I would say 80% of what he brought to the table was pure athleticism. Now that hes lost this he is a shell of what he used to be.

Prediction.....

Marquez by UD.... for the 4th time!!

Couldn't agree more

[Xerant]

Originally Posted by Uncle Rico

According to who?

Honestly, this nonsense about JMM winning all three fights has got to stop. One of the fights, yes, that was a definite JMM win. But the other two were agonisingly close that could have gone either way. The results on paper for those fights -- a draw and a split decision -- aren't the injustices that they're made out to be by some fans. Just like the official results, to a an unknowing reader, will present the falsehood that JMM has never won, claims like the above also present the falsehood that JMM was cheated everytime he stepped in with Pac, when that's totally not the case.

Exactly!

[Smokin' Joe]

Originally Posted by Uncle Rico

Right before you edited the post, I think I saw something which either read JMM won all three or Pacquiao lost all three. Hence why I felt the need to preach. If that's not what you said, then my bad. But my point still stands with other people that believe it.

I said he won 2, which I personally believe.

[Uncle Rico]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Joe

I said he won 2, which I personally believe.

Oh, ok. Then I guess my point does still stand. If it's the below that you said without mentioning that it's only your personal opinion...

"Many of them wouldn't realise that Marquez has actually won 2"

...then you're misrepresenting the truth. One fight, yes. But not two.

But if you didn't say that, then just dismiss what I've written.

[saul_ir34]

Originally Posted by sbbigmike

If JMM was smart he would of retired after the 3rd match, he would have retired a martyr, who was unfairly persecuted 3x because of boxing corruption. His cloud would forever hang over Manny head and subsequently ruining Manny's career........

Or he could be a man and fight him again to actually beat him. He does not want to be an asterik on someones career. He wants to have his own successful career.

[Smokin' Joe]

Originally Posted by Uncle Rico

Oh, ok. Then I guess my point does still stand. If it's the below that you said without mentioning that it's only your personal opinion...

"Many of them wouldn't realise that Marquez has actually won 2"

...then you're misrepresenting the truth. One fight, yes. But not two.

The entire forum spouts their opinion like it's fact, and you're gonna give me shit for one line?

There's many here who'll adamantly say JMM won all 3, why don't you go whine at them.

[janeschicken]

One thing that amazes me about these two is that considering Pac's tendency to bleed, and the southpaw vs orthodox, and the wild nature of their combat, that we've actually gotten 36 rounds without a fight-stopping clash of heads/subsequent cut.

[Uncle Rico]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Joe

The entire forum spouts their opinion like it's fact, and you're gonna give me shit for one line?

There's many here who'll adamantly say JMM won all 3, why don't you go whine at them.

Mate, I'm not giving you shit and you only. I've said the same thing to others who try and present it as fact. Hence why I'm a little tired of hearing it and why my intial post may have came across a bit rude. So don't worry, when they refuse to acknowledge it's only their personal opinion, I pick them out for it. Same goes for those who try and say Pac won without dispute. They're distorting reality too and are doing the efforts of both fighters a disservice.

[divac]

Age may very well play a factor. There's 7 years difference between them.
Can you imagine Pacquiao at 40 and Marquez at 33???
Thats no joke, we're talking massacre here.

The Pacquiao plan a year ago was to beat up on a washed up lightweight who haunted him twice previously.

The way Pacquiao and Roach speak is that the previous fights are dismissed if Pacquiao can get a legit win over Marquez this time.
A fallacy of course, but its how they view it.

Personally I feel win or lose this weekend, Marquez position as the better fighter is secured. He's proven it at three stages in Pacquiao's career.

For Marquez, losing does not diminish his legacy. For Pacquiao it does.
I felt the same way before fight 3. I said in this very forum that it was too late for this matchup to have any significance for Pacquiao legacy wise because he waited to long and let Marquez get old.
The same applies here. I described the same analogy in football terms last fight that I'll do right now.
Marquez has driven the offensive line (Pacquiao) offsides, Marquez has a free play downfield.

I dont agree with the thread starter, except in team Pacquiao's rose colored world, Marquez imo has everything to gain, nothing to lose.
Pacquiao is the one under pressure to finallly get a win, and if he gets it, history will note it was against a 40 year old JMM!

Win win for Marquez!

Lose lose for Paquiao!

Simple as that!

[divac]

Originally Posted by Mrtibbs

My views onthe subject....

Marquez has never had the fastest hands, the fastest feet, god like Stamina, Or amazing Power. He just does his thing and it works.

Pac Man Relies heavily on his Speed, Power, and Stamina, but in boxing terms is not the most amazing Pure boxer. He makes a lot of Mistakes. He does Amazingly well with what he has, but its not a style that he can adapt when he loses his speed and stamina.

The reason Marquez won the third fight in stronger fasion (In my opinion) is because Pac man is slipping in all areas, and because he doesnt have the skill set to adapt (he is more of a pattern fighter than an adaptive fighter), Marquez looked better than ever.

Marquez on the other hand has his amazing Skill set, therfore more logetivity as a fighter.

In my opinion Pacs the one that is a ticking time bomb in regards to age. His fighting style can only take him so far in terms of age.

IMO much like Roy Jones. I would say 80% of what he brought to the table was pure athleticism. Now that hes lost this he is a shell of what he used to be.

Prediction.....

Marquez by UD.... for the 4th time!!

Its not about what Pacquiao's enhanced or diminished skills.
Marquez is simply just better.

Pacquiao did look more confused and frustrated in fight 3 than he did the previous fights I agree. But its not because Pacquiao lost quickness, speed, or power.
Its because Marquez gave Pacquiao less chances by throwing less combinations past 3 punches.

One-two, and one two threes, was Marquez trademark for fight three when in the previous 2 fights he went passed to 4's and 5's.

The more liberal you are with your punches the more opportnities there are for Pacquiao.

Drop Cotto back to 150 lbs and this current version of Pacquiao will still massacre him.
If Pacquiao has lost much, he has'nt lost more than what Marquez who is 40 years old has.

[valdosta]

LMAO, yeah I am sure you really believe that garbage. Luckily, most people are a little smarter than that and realize that Pacquiao has accomplished more than JMM. Pacquiao will ALWAYS and forever be rated higher than JMM in a historic sense regardless of there 3 relatively close fights.

[PH|LLA]

Originally Posted by valdosta

LMAO, yeah I am sure you really believe that garbage. Luckily, most people are a little smarter than that and realize that Pacquiao has accomplished more than JMM. Pacquiao will ALWAYS and forever be rated higher than JMM in a historic sense regardless of there 3 relatively close fights.

seriously, it's like people saying that Norton is better than Ali because he arguably won all 3 fights.

[janeschicken]

Divac, do you think Lederman's black non-biological daughter Adelaide Julie Lederman-Byrd should be allowed to judge this fight?

[this_and_that]

He said it himself -- this has turned personal for him.
That's all we need to know right there.
A man must do what a man got to do -- or spend the twilight of his years filled with an unquenchable hunger to prove one's self.