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Old 12-06-2012, 10:55 AM   #16
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

Definitely Frank Shamrock for showing what the future MMA fighters would be.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

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Respectfully disagree fella, cant give this to Ken. Which fight pre UFC 10 are you thinking of, Im struggling to recall Ken throwing to many punches from the top On the other side of the coin, Coleman is KNOWN for taking guys down and punching them. As a strategy to win fights often and inspiring others to do so, Coleman is well deserving of being the ''innovator''
UFC 5 Ken laid the blueprint for all other wrestlers to follow by taking Royce down and never attempting to pass the guard but staying put and punching from inside the guard.

He already used a variation of GnP in his UFC 3 appearnces where he stopped Lenniger due to strikes and grounded Milton Bowen with punches until he rolled over and Ken choked him out.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:28 AM   #18
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

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I like this list, but I believe Severn earned a mention with his wrestling. Remember, because of the difficulty Rickson had in submitting Mark Schultz, Rorion refused to let wrestlers into the first few UFCs. Rorion wanted to be sure his brand had been made before taking a chance on watching Royce struggle with a wrestler. The strategy ultimately paid off, as the Severn win was probably Royce's best victory. Anyway, Severn went on to win the next event, and wrestling became a huge part of mma.
Of course, I've heard all of this before but in my mind the inclusion of Ken Shamrock in the first UFC throws this out the window. At the time Ken was without a doubt the best shootfighter in the world which combines catch wrestling with muay thai striking. If you look at Ken's fights in Pancrase Pre-UFC 1 - he was throwing people all over the place. At the time he was either already the first King of Pancrase or was one fight away from the actual title fight having already defeated the top competition in Japan. In his fight with Matt Hume - he suplexed him on his head - ala Severn/Macias. Ken jut never had the chance to showcase his throws in the UFC and especially not in UFC 1 because Royce choked his ass out!
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

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Travis fulton for fighting way more than he should ?
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:44 PM   #20
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

How is Bas Rutten not in the list?
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:50 PM   #21
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

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UFC 5 Ken laid the blueprint for all other wrestlers to follow by taking Royce down and never attempting to pass the guard but staying put and punching from inside the guard.

He already used a variation of GnP in his UFC 3 appearnces where he stopped Lenniger due to strikes and grounded Milton Bowen with punches until he rolled over and Ken choked him out.
Ken never fought Bowen. You must be talking about Felix Mitchell; otherwise known as the first guy to wear MMA gloves to the octagon, but was asked to remove them before the fight began. Bowen went on to be the first guy to actually fight with MMA gloves.

It was Steve Jennum that grounded Melton Bowen, worked some GnP from full mount, and then took the most comically gift wrapped armbar in the history of the sport. Jennum was actually a pretty complete fighter for the era.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:52 PM   #22
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

Got a feeling this threads gonna run and run.....

Enjoying it, learning loads, keep posting fellas.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:16 PM   #23
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

You're right, Rob Floyd. I confused the two names.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

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UFC 5 Ken laid the blueprint for all other wrestlers to follow by taking Royce down and never attempting to pass the guard but staying put and punching from inside the guard.
I agree that Ken didn't attempt to pass Royce's guard in UFC5, but I remember it looking more like Ken, (despite training with the Machados to prepare for Royce) looking like he was afraid to get caught by Royce again.

It wasn't until the overtime round, after the artificial restart when Ken popped Royce in the eye, and then had an advantage and started working on Royce's eye and that's when I guess you could say he pioneered the GnP.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

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How is Bas Rutten not in the list?
Bas Rutten was great a fighter, but to me, he was pretty much doing the same thing as the other Pancrase fighters.

However, I do recall a fight between Frank Shamrock and Bas where Bas executed the very first perfectly timed, perfectly placed bare knuckle spinning back fist I had ever seen. So Bas gets a spot on the list.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:45 PM   #26
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

And I just remembered, BRUCE LEE belongs at the very top of the list for being the first guy who openly and publicly promoted cross training in different fighting styles to discover the truth about martial arts. Lee was the original MMA guy and he even filmed that MMA like scene at the beginning of Enter The Dragon that ended with an arm lock/neck crank.

And if memory serves me correctly, it was Maurice Smith who I first saw in the sport to have proficiency on the ground and on the feet. I even remember before his classic fight with Conan Silveira, they interviewed Maurice Smith before the fight and he was talking about how influential Bruce Lee was to him.
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:52 PM   #27
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

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And I just remembered, BRUCE LEE belongs at the very top of the list for being the first guy who openly and publicly promoted cross training in different fighting styles to discover the truth about martial arts. Lee was the original MMA guy and he even filmed that MMA like scene at the beginning of Enter The Dragon that ended with an arm lock/neck crank.

And if memory serves me correctly, it was Maurice Smith who I first saw in the sport to have proficiency on the ground and on the feet. I even remember before his classic fight with Conan Silveira, they interviewed Maurice Smith before the fight and he was talking about how influential Bruce Lee was to him.
This thread was going so so well......why did you have to mention Bruce Lee!?!?

Yes his legacy is every where around us in combat sports and the wider world in general would look and be a very different place without Bruce and for that he'll always get respect.

But the thread title is about "fighters".

Even though for many Bruce is and was a god like figure & cited by just about every martial artist alive as an influence , was he ever a fighter? The problem with bringing Bruce into a thread like this is it's nothing but hypothetical. Unlike the fighters on the above list it'll always be a what if with Bruce.........
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

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This thread was going so so well......why did you have to mention Bruce Lee!?!?

Yes his legacy is ever where around us in combat sports and the. World would look and be a very different place without Bruce and for that he'll always get respect.

But the thread title is about "fighters".

Even though for many Bruce is and was a god like figure & cited by just about every martial artist alive as an influence , was he ever a fighter? The problem with bringing Bruce into a thread like this is it's nothing but hypothetical. Unlike the fighters on the above list it'll always be a what if with Bruce.........



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Old 12-06-2012, 05:03 PM   #29
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

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And I just remembered, BRUCE LEE belongs at the very top of the list for being the first guy who openly and publicly promoted cross training in different fighting styles to discover the truth about martial arts. Lee was the original MMA guy and he even filmed that MMA like scene at the beginning of Enter The Dragon that ended with an arm lock/neck crank.

And if memory serves me correctly, it was Maurice Smith who I first saw in the sport to have proficiency on the ground and on the feet. I even remember before his classic fight with Conan Silveira, they interviewed Maurice Smith before the fight and he was talking about how influential Bruce Lee was to him.



Bruce belongs at the bottom of the list because he has no verifiable bouts. Fred Ettish has verifiable bouts.

Gene Lebell did it all before Bruce. Who do you think gave Bruce that arm bar?


Steve Jennum was the first to show a stand up ground game package IMO.
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:28 PM   #30
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Default Re: Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

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Bruce belongs at the bottom of the list because he has no verifiable bouts. Fred Ettish has verifiable bouts.

Gene Lebell did it all before Bruce. Who do you think gave Bruce that arm bar?


Steve Jennum was the first to show a stand up ground game package IMO.
Gene LeBell. Now we're talking
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