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Old 12-03-2012, 03:32 AM   #31
mcvey
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I have always felt the comparison to be a misguided one.

They both had good chins and fought out of a crouch, but that is where the similarity ends.
I think Jeffries was significantly better than Chuvalo,and, though his chin was not tested against big heavyweights ,which always left a question mark as far as I was concerned, the fact that he absorbed Fitz's shots in 2 fights convinced me that his chin was indeed top drawer.

I think he matches up poorly against big sharp shooting, fast heavyweights of modern times because he would not be able to rely on absorbing their shots and then wearing them down in the late rounds.
By then his face would be raw hamburger, and today's referees would have to rescue him before his stamina could be a factor .
He also would be not a giant feasting on lightheavyweights , but a small to average heavyweight , relying on his durability against bigger men, this worked for Marciano , but he had one punch ko power ,and was fighting men 190lbs /200lbs.

Jeffries did not have Marciano's power and he would be in a situation he had never encountered, being the smaller man against giants who not only outsized him but were in their primes instead of being old retired and ,recycled ex champs.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:01 AM   #32
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Would not this, "lack of film" also apply to yourself?

Or, do you possess footage that others have hitherto not seen?

Did Jeffries hit harder than Quarry?

On what do you base this premise?

Was Jeffries superior to Quarry in handspeed,footwork,defensive ability?

The limited footage would appear to indicate otherwise.

Jeffries was cut to pieces by a near forty years old 172lbs man who was coming out of two years retirement.


Also ,when was Jeffries hit by combinations from a real heavyweight?

Nineteen of his twenty three opponents were under 190lbs.At least eleven of them by very significant margins.
Please elaborate on his inherent advantages over Quarry.
Jeffries hit harder than Quarry based on the fact that he floored everyone in his prime, and produced far more ten counts. A few historians felt Jeffries was an all time puncher. Odd and Diamond for example. Or to use a name you might be more familiar with Tex Rickard said Jeffries hit harder then Dempsey. now do you still think Quarry hit harder



Jeffries is bigger, stronger, has more reach, and probably has the edge on every part of the tale of the tape. Is this enough advantages for you?


Quarry's weight is well within the range of Jeffries opponents, and Quarry's best weight is under 200 pounds.



Jackson was 195, Ruhlin 200 for both fights, and Munroe 215 when they fought Jeffries. Kennedy was likely over 190 as well, and Johnson was 208. I count five, not four...

As for footage I have seen Jeffries sparring with Ryan, and hitting a heavy bag, which are clips most here have not seen. If his work out clips vs Ruhlin which you have seen, you can see plenty of speed, footwork and defense.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:23 AM   #33
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Jeffries hit harder than Quarry based on the fact that he floored everyone in his prime, and produced far more ten counts. A few historians felt Jeffries was an all time puncher. Odd and Diamond for example. Or to use a name you might be more familiar with Tex Rickard said Jeffries hit harder then Dempsey. now do you still think Quarry hit harder



Jeffries is bigger, stronger, has more reach, and probably has the edge on every part of the tale of the tape. Is this enough advantages for you?


Quarry's weight is well within the range of Jeffries opponents, and Quarry's best weight is under 200 pounds.



Jackson was 195, Ruhlin 200 for both fights, and Munroe 215 when they fought Jeffries. Kennedy was likely over 190 as well, and Johnson was 208. I count five, not four...

As for footage I have seen Jeffries sparring with Ryan, and hitting a heavy bag, which are clips most here have not seen. If his work out clips vs Ruhlin which you have seen, you can see plenty of speed, footwork and defense.
Fight footage was requested ,not training clips which are worthless. Jeffries failed to stop.
Choynski who was conceding 67lbs! and he had 20 rds to do it in

Sharkey who was 6inches shorter, and between 32 & 35lbs lighter, went 45rds with Jeffries. Fitz kod Sharkey twice with one punch.
Armstrong who was kod quickly in a few fights, he went 10 rds to a finish, he was conceding 25lbs ,and had just been kod in 5 rds by Pete Everett.


Ruhlin in their first fight & and their second was a corner retirement. Griffin ,who was conceding 40lbs.

Jeffries was always the bigger heavier man.
It took him 23rds to beat a long retired Corbett whom a167lbs Fitz took out with ONE shot when Corbett was prime.

It took Jeffries 11 rds to stop a long retired Fitz.
These are NOT the results of a top flight banger.
Quarry kod ranked heavyweights scaling 200lbs plus , Jeffries never did.

I think Quarry 's power was probably comparable to Jeffries, and he was hitting significantly bigger men while wearing a lot bigger gloves, and men their prime, not recycled old guys. .

The fact that Jefffries was bigger than Quarry means what? **** ALL.
So were Lyle , Shavers, Mathis, Foster,Ellis, Spencer ,and Patterson.

The smaller quality men Jeffries fought gave him hell.
Still no sign of any sources or names? I'll give you this ,you are consistant, you have NEVER produced a single, solitary primary source to back up any of your claims .
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:32 AM   #34
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

[quote]Jeffries hit harder than Quarry based on the fact that he floored everyone in his prime, and produced far more ten counts. A few historians felt Jeffries was an all time puncher. Odd and Diamond for example. Or to use a name you might be more familiar with Tex Rickard said Jeffries hit harder then Dempsey. now do you still think Quarry hit harder



Jeffries is bigger, stronger, has more reach, and probably has the edge on every part of the tale of the tape. Is this enough advantages for you?


Mendoz says: Quarry's weight is well within the range of Jeffries opponents, and Quarry's best weight is under 200 pounds.



Jackson was 195, Ruhlin 200 for both fights, and Munroe 215 when they fought Jeffries. Kennedy was likely over 190 as well, and Johnson was 208. I count five, not four...

As for footage I have seen Jeffries sparring with Ryan, and hitting a heavy bag, which are clips most here have not seen. If his work out clips vs Ruhlin which you have seen, you can see plenty

Quote:
McVey says:
Quote:
Choynski who was conceding 67lbs! and he had 20 rds to do it in
Choynski is a hall of fame fighter who was at his peak. Jeffries had only been pro for a while; still he floored Choyhski three or two times depending on the source. Choynski ran the entire half of the fight. Being a Jack Johnson fan, one would figure you’d play up Choysnki as he knocked him out cold in three rounds


Quote:
Sharkey who was 6inches shorter, and between 32 & 35lbs lighter, went 45rds with Jeffries. Fitz kod Sharkey twice with one punch.
Once again, Shareky was a hall of fame fighter in his prime. You leave out stuff unpurporse. Jeffreis had Sharkey floored and hurt in the first match, and likely would have finished him in the 2nd match if not for the arm injury suffered in roudn two when he floored Sharkey. Still, the shape Sharkey was in at the end of the fight tells the tale. He was a broken mess, but he would not quit. I suppose you will blast Marciano for faling to finish Ted Lowry in both fights, or rip Sonny Liston for falign to stop some journyeman level people? Of coruse not, you’re a baised prick.

Quote:
Armstrong who was kod quickly in a few fights, he went 10 rds to a finish, he was conceding 25lbs ,and had just been kod in 5 rds by Pete Everett.
Jeffries broke his thumb in round one and had Armstrong down and ready to go by the 10th.


Quote:
Ruhlin in their first fight & and their second was a corner retirement. Griffin ,who was conceding 40lbs.
If you read fight reports, you will see Ruhlin was down twice, and finsihed the match out on his back saved by the count. The crowd hissed at the decsion, meaning the draw was questionable. Ruhlin was done for in the re-match and down in roudn five. If he did not throw in the sponge he would not have lasted long. Griffin who beat Johnson in the same 12 month span was also down multiple times.

Quote:
Jeffries was always the bigger heavier man.
It took him 23rds to beat a long retired Corbett whom a167lbs Fitz took out with ONE shot when Corbett was prime.
So what. Corbett went 25+ rounds with hitters like Choynski and Jackson without going down. Fitz just caught him with a perfect body shot.


Quote:
It took Jeffries 11 rds to stop a long retired Fitz.
If you look at the records, no man stopped Fitz for a ten year run ( too lazy to look up the dates ) exepct for Jeffries. Next!





Quote:
Still no sign of any sources or names? I'll give you this ,you are consistant, you have NEVER produced a single, solitary primary source to back up any of your claims .

Jeffries record has little fat on it. His KO% in title fights is very good by any standard. To suggest he wasn’t a puncher is either badly misinformed or in your case a weak minded agenda.

Part 2 below
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:33 AM   #35
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

Names for Mcvey on Jeffries power. Read, learn, and try to remember:

Old-time referee Billy Roche described Jeffries as having the "acrobatic springiness of a circus tumbler in his legs. He was no lumbering ox, anchored to one spot, but a natural athlete" (see McCallum 1975 p 11).



Surly in nature and stubborn, he did not care much for foolishness or jokes. He was often referred to as the "Beast" because of his rough battle tactics. Fighting from his crouch, he would suddenly spring forward, often clanging heads with his foe (this never hurt Jeffries but often stunned his man).



Butting heads, ramming shoulders into opponents, hitting with elbows, shoving his foe around, and leaning on his man in clinches were all part of his style.



William Brady, who managed both Jeffries and Jim Corbett, remarked, "There never was a man better fitted anatomically, physically, and temperamentally for the role of World's Heavyweight Champion" (see Edgren 1926).



Testimonies to Jeffries' strength are numerous. Houston (1975 p 15) said, "There was nothing fancy about James J. Jeffries. He was a die-hard fighter of the old school, relying on his considerable strength and durability to bring him victory." He added that Jeffries had a "bear-like" appearance in his slightly crouched stance, was almost impossible to hurt or discourage, and delivered clubbing blows that took their toll. He also said "If Jeffries could not outbox an opponent, he could certainly outlast the best of them."



Odd (1974 p 1 said that Jeffries was the strongest of the heavyweight champions in both hitting power and build. Carpenter (1975 p 34) called Jeffries a bull of a man out of the California iron foundries who traded on strength.



It has been written that no man was the same after being pounded by Jeffries' fists. With "TNT" in each hand, he delivered heavy, relentless blows that imparted their damage to the foe.



He cracked two of Bob Fitzsimmons' ribs in one of their bouts. He battered Tom Sharkey, breaking his nose and two ribs. Diamond (1954 p 62) said Sharkey was hospitalized for three days and suffered three broken ribs. He bashed in Jim Corbett's right side in their second match. He sent Joe Goddard to the hospital with a severe beating and dealt Pete Everett head and back injuries that kept him bed-ridden for days. Yet, Jeffries, himself, said he never hit a man with all his strength for fear of killing him.



Grombach (1977 p 50) said Jeffries was a natural puncher who was so big and powerful that he could deliver damaging blows from an almost extended left-hand that did not have to travel more than a few inches. Keith (1969 p 127) asserted, "Jeffries probably owned the deadliest left hook the prize ring has ever known."



Tex Rickard, famed fight promoter, said "There's no style to him, but he's the hardest hitter I ever saw. And that includes Dempsey" (see McCallum 1975 p 15; Durant 1976 p 47). Diamond (1954 p 60) described Jeffries, "he was something more than a mere slugger. He was a rough, tough battler, with a mighty punch."



Sports columnist Ned Brown, said, "He was one of the most powerfully built, could take a solid punch, and had acquired a fair amount of boxing skill by the time he tangled with Jim Corbett in their second match. Jeff had as deadly wallop as any I've ever seen" (see McCallum 1975 p 12).



Odd (1976 p 163) quoted Fitzsimmons describing Jeffries in battle, "The first time he really hit me in the body, I thought his fist had gone right through me. His crouching stance and the way he tossed that long left. Every time I hit him, he punched back even harder."



Cooper (1978 p 107) remarked, "James J. Jeffries was one of the ring's indestructibles" and asserted, "Apart from having a punch that might have knocked a horse out, Jeffries' greatest asset was sheer patience."



It has been said that Jeffries could endure more punishment than any other prizefighter. He had a cast iron chin attached to a large, bowling ball head. Fight fans in New York called him a "primitive", a "caveman". He was never knocked down during his prime.



Willoughby (1970 p 35 wrote, "Certainly, among all the heavyweights up to the year 1905, when he retired from the ring, Jim Jeffries was the greatest all-around performer. While he could not hit with the lightning-speed of Fitzsimmons, he had a powerful punch in each hand, and a good defense in the form of his famous 'crouch'. Most of all, however, he

was impervious to blows, either to his head, face, or body."



According to Farr (1964 p 34), "Jim Jeffries was tough. Let us examine the word. Since Jeffries' time, it has suffered such abuse as a vogue-word as to be almost without meaning ... But, at the time the word was applied to Jeffries, it had a meaning that was both broad and exact. A tough man's bone structure was heavier than that of a ordinary person; his muscular integument was thicker, so that it protected his nervous system from shock, and also was more supple, thus giving him superior ease and freedom of movement. He had a higher threshold of pain than the average man, and so could take a punch, as the handlers of prizefighters put it. The completing element of toughness, however, was emotional, and it lay in willingness to hit or kick another man, or maim him, before he could go into action."



Suster (1994 p 31) reported, "Certainly he was tough. Possibly no heavyweight champion has ever demonstrated a greater capacity for enduring pain." Lardner (1972 p 135) said, "Jeffries, far from a natural boxer, picked up the rawest fundamentals. But, given Jeffries' extraordinary physical skills, fundamentals were enough." He added, "nature had furnished him with nearly impenetrable armour."



Bob Fitzsimmons, one of the ring's deadliest hitters, broke his fists on Jeffries' head. Fitz even used plaster of paris in his wraps and still couldn't knock Jeffries down.



Jim Corbett said, "Nobody can ever hurt him, not even with an ax" (see Litsky 1975 p 166). Gene Tunney (1941 p 139) wrote, "Jeffries' decisive quality was his tremendous physical toughness and endurance. The brawny giant could hardly be hurt" (also see McCallum 1974 p 49).



W.W. Naughton (1902 p 122) recorded, "To sum up his qualities of ringmanship, it may be said that he is fairly talented in every branch of self-defense. He boxes cleverly, defends himself well and strikes a hard blow. But, back of all these are the qualities which have made him a champion, to wit, magnificent strength and wonderful endurance."



Durant and Bettmann (1952 p 122) state that Jeffries was a fighting champion, putting his title on the line to anyone who deserved a crack at it. All the good men he fought prior to becoming champion received a title shot. Edgren (1926 p 56) said he even offered to fight Fitzsimmons, Corbett, and Sharkey - all on the same night - but they refused.



Jess Willard said, "Jim Jeffries was a great, big, rugged fella, hard t'beat." He added, "Very tough man ... Jeffries in his prime would lick anybody - he did!" (see Suster 1994 p 31).
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:53 PM   #36
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Names for Mcvey on Jeffries power. Read, learn, and try to remember:

Old-time referee Billy Roche described Jeffries as having the "acrobatic springiness of a circus tumbler in his legs. He was no lumbering ox, anchored to one spot, but a natural athlete" (see McCallum 1975 p 11).



Surly in nature and stubborn, he did not care much for foolishness or jokes. He was often referred to as the "Beast" because of his rough battle tactics. Fighting from his crouch, he would suddenly spring forward, often clanging heads with his foe (this never hurt Jeffries but often stunned his man).



Butting heads, ramming shoulders into opponents, hitting with elbows, shoving his foe around, and leaning on his man in clinches were all part of his style.



William Brady, who managed both Jeffries and Jim Corbett, remarked, "There never was a man better fitted anatomically, physically, and temperamentally for the role of World's Heavyweight Champion" (see Edgren 1926).



Testimonies to Jeffries' strength are numerous. Houston (1975 p 15) said, "There was nothing fancy about James J. Jeffries. He was a die-hard fighter of the old school, relying on his considerable strength and durability to bring him victory." He added that Jeffries had a "bear-like" appearance in his slightly crouched stance, was almost impossible to hurt or discourage, and delivered clubbing blows that took their toll. He also said "If Jeffries could not outbox an opponent, he could certainly outlast the best of them."



Odd (1974 p 1 said that Jeffries was the strongest of the heavyweight champions in both hitting power and build. Carpenter (1975 p 34) called Jeffries a bull of a man out of the California iron foundries who traded on strength.



It has been written that no man was the same after being pounded by Jeffries' fists. With "TNT" in each hand, he delivered heavy, relentless blows that imparted their damage to the foe.



He cracked two of Bob Fitzsimmons' ribs in one of their bouts. He battered Tom Sharkey, breaking his nose and two ribs. Diamond (1954 p 62) said Sharkey was hospitalized for three days and suffered three broken ribs. He bashed in Jim Corbett's right side in their second match. He sent Joe Goddard to the hospital with a severe beating and dealt Pete Everett head and back injuries that kept him bed-ridden for days. Yet, Jeffries, himself, said he never hit a man with all his strength for fear of killing him.



Grombach (1977 p 50) said Jeffries was a natural puncher who was so big and powerful that he could deliver damaging blows from an almost extended left-hand that did not have to travel more than a few inches. Keith (1969 p 127) asserted, "Jeffries probably owned the deadliest left hook the prize ring has ever known."



Tex Rickard, famed fight promoter, said "There's no style to him, but he's the hardest hitter I ever saw. And that includes Dempsey" (see McCallum 1975 p 15; Durant 1976 p 47). Diamond (1954 p 60) described Jeffries, "he was something more than a mere slugger. He was a rough, tough battler, with a mighty punch."



Sports columnist Ned Brown, said, "He was one of the most powerfully built, could take a solid punch, and had acquired a fair amount of boxing skill by the time he tangled with Jim Corbett in their second match. Jeff had as deadly wallop as any I've ever seen" (see McCallum 1975 p 12).



Odd (1976 p 163) quoted Fitzsimmons describing Jeffries in battle, "The first time he really hit me in the body, I thought his fist had gone right through me. His crouching stance and the way he tossed that long left. Every time I hit him, he punched back even harder."



Cooper (1978 p 107) remarked, "James J. Jeffries was one of the ring's indestructibles" and asserted, "Apart from having a punch that might have knocked a horse out, Jeffries' greatest asset was sheer patience."



It has been said that Jeffries could endure more punishment than any other prizefighter. He had a cast iron chin attached to a large, bowling ball head. Fight fans in New York called him a "primitive", a "caveman". He was never knocked down during his prime.



Willoughby (1970 p 35 wrote, "Certainly, among all the heavyweights up to the year 1905, when he retired from the ring, Jim Jeffries was the greatest all-around performer. While he could not hit with the lightning-speed of Fitzsimmons, he had a powerful punch in each hand, and a good defense in the form of his famous 'crouch'. Most of all, however, he

was impervious to blows, either to his head, face, or body."



According to Farr (1964 p 34), "Jim Jeffries was tough. Let us examine the word. Since Jeffries' time, it has suffered such abuse as a vogue-word as to be almost without meaning ... But, at the time the word was applied to Jeffries, it had a meaning that was both broad and exact. A tough man's bone structure was heavier than that of a ordinary person; his muscular integument was thicker, so that it protected his nervous system from shock, and also was more supple, thus giving him superior ease and freedom of movement. He had a higher threshold of pain than the average man, and so could take a punch, as the handlers of prizefighters put it. The completing element of toughness, however, was emotional, and it lay in willingness to hit or kick another man, or maim him, before he could go into action."



Suster (1994 p 31) reported, "Certainly he was tough. Possibly no heavyweight champion has ever demonstrated a greater capacity for enduring pain." Lardner (1972 p 135) said, "Jeffries, far from a natural boxer, picked up the rawest fundamentals. But, given Jeffries' extraordinary physical skills, fundamentals were enough." He added, "nature had furnished him with nearly impenetrable armour."



Bob Fitzsimmons, one of the ring's deadliest hitters, broke his fists on Jeffries' head. Fitz even used plaster of paris in his wraps and still couldn't knock Jeffries down.



Jim Corbett said, "Nobody can ever hurt him, not even with an ax" (see Litsky 1975 p 166). Gene Tunney (1941 p 139) wrote, "Jeffries' decisive quality was his tremendous physical toughness and endurance. The brawny giant could hardly be hurt" (also see McCallum 1974 p 49).



W.W. Naughton (1902 p 122) recorded, "To sum up his qualities of ringmanship, it may be said that he is fairly talented in every branch of self-defense. He boxes cleverly, defends himself well and strikes a hard blow. But, back of all these are the qualities which have made him a champion, to wit, magnificent strength and wonderful endurance."



Durant and Bettmann (1952 p 122) state that Jeffries was a fighting champion, putting his title on the line to anyone who deserved a crack at it. All the good men he fought prior to becoming champion received a title shot. Edgren (1926 p 56) said he even offered to fight Fitzsimmons, Corbett, and Sharkey - all on the same night - but they refused.



Jess Willard said, "Jim Jeffries was a great, big, rugged fella, hard t'beat." He added, "Very tough man ... Jeffries in his prime would lick anybody - he did!" (see Suster 1994 p 31).
I have all these quotes , so don't need to remember them,anyway they are worthless,here's why

The following never saw Jeffries fight.
Grombach
Durant
Odd
Cooper
Farr
Suster
Willoughby
Brown
McCallum
Huston
Diamond
Willard

That leaves .
Roche, no mention of Jeffries power.

Naughton," he strikes a hard blow" [very illuminating]
Brady, again no mention of Jeffries power.

By the way if you want quotes from Brady on Jeffries, I've a bucket full , but I have a feeling you won't like them.

Rickard , he calls Jeffries the hardest puncher of them all.
N.B. Directly after the Johnson /Jeffries fight/ Rickard named Johnson as the greatest heavyweight up till then [1910]. So if you believe one quote ,you must believe the other mustn't you?
Summary ,quotes provided by you to prove Jeffries hit harder than Quarry are totally useless.
Jeffries did NOT KO the following.
Sharkey x2
Ruhlin 1st fight
Armstrong
Jackson police stopped fight
Corbett 2nd fight ,corner threw in towel [actually a palm-leaf fan]
Ruhlin 2nd fight, corner retirement between rds.
Baker, fight stopped by ref.
Goddard , corner threw in towel.[41 years old by the way]
Everett. RSF .

In 23 fights, he actually scored 10 kos
Let's look at some of them.
CAREER
Long 0-4 all losses by ko
Lorrainne 0-2 both losses by ko
Kennedy, his sparring partner and stopped 4 times in 18 fights
Fitzsimmons1 , retired for 2 years ,37 years old outweighed by39lbs
Fitz 2, retired for 3 years,39 years old outweighed by 47lbs
Corbett 1 retired for 2 years not won a fight for 6 years outweighed by 30lbs
Finnegan 14 fights w 5 l3, 2 by ko outweighed by 60lbs.[ Actually not kod referee Siler halted count with Finnegan on his feet crying .
So 9 ko's.

Opponents known weights. 167lbs,172lbs,180lbs,180lbs,188lbs.
In the light ot these results.
I find it entirely reasonable to accept that Quarry may have had comparable power to Jeffries.

Last edited by mcvey; 12-05-2012 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:42 PM   #37
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The point your missing is.....Fitz was an incredibly hard puncher. One punch ko power. So your comparing one all time great puncher against another. Perhaps Fitz had better one punch power. Jeffries himself stated in regards to his power.....I only need one punch from either fist.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:52 PM   #38
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The point your missing is.....Fitz was an incredibly hard puncher. One punch ko power. So your comparing one all time great puncher against another. Perhaps Fitz had better one punch power. Jeffries himself stated in regards to his power.....I only need one punch from either fist.
If this is for me. I'm not missing anything, I accept that Jeffries was a solid puncher, my contention is that he was not a super heavy puncher as you say Fitz undoubtedly was.
Jeffries wore his opponents down before despatching them and , for the most part he greatly outsized them.

I find it quite possible that Quarry hit as hard as Jeffries ,and he had the added disadvantage of wearing bigger gloves, and hitting on men who were not only real heavyweights but were not coming out of extended retirement.


I haven't even made a pick here .

A question for you

Which top heavyweight in his prime did Jeffries knock unconscious ?

In other words when did Jeffries ever do this?


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Old 12-05-2012, 05:57 PM   #39
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If this is for me. I'm not missing anything, I accept that Jeffries was a solid puncher, my contention is that he was not a super heavy puncher as you say Fitz undoubtedly was.
Jeffries wore his opponents down before despatching them and , for the most part he greatly outsized them.

I find it quite possible that Quarry hit as hard as Jeffries ,and he had the added disadvantage of wearing bigger gloves, and hitting on men who were not only real heavyweights but were not coming out of extended retirement.


I haven't even made a pick here .

A question for you

Which top heavyweight in his prime did Jeffries knock unconscious ?

In other words when did Jeffries ever do this?


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As I told you Jeffries who wasn’t always aggressive and sometimes had a conservative approach given the distance of his fights produced a knockdown in all of his fights, save his lame comeback effort when he was 35, had to lose 80+ and had not fought in 6 years. He wasn’t always aggressive like say Marciano or Frazier were. And his record has the least amount of .500 fighters of any champion in the division, meaning he didn’t fatten his KO record with tomato cans.

Knocking a man unconscious is a rare thing in boxing, particularly once you pass the journeyman level, but take note, Jeffries KO’d Fitz cold, and had Corbett out like a log until the count ended. He destroyed Munroe and Everett ( both of whom were in their prime ) faster than any one. Jackson was out like a puppet who’s strings had be cut, a mess in the ropes and could not have made to his own corner unassisted. The police stoppage you ascertain for Jackson needs a qualifier, but I don’t expect fair minded reporting form you. Corbett in the 2nd fight would not have lasted another round. In fact there are news reads that say he was down for a long count.

Rickard said Jeffries hit harder than Dempsey. Now do you think Dempsey was just a “ solid puncher “ ? Of Coues not! Your double standard and agenda will not play with anyone familiar on the subject material.

Very few knowdegeable fight fans will say Quarry hit harder. In fact almost none will. And the vast majority will say Jeffries hit hard than Quarry.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:59 AM   #40
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

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As I told you Jeffries who wasn’t always aggressive and sometimes had a conservative approach given the distance of his fights produced a knockdown in all of his fights, save his lame comeback effort when he was 35, had to lose 80+ and had not fought in 6 years. He wasn’t always aggressive like say Marciano or Frazier were. And his record has the least amount of .500 fighters of any champion in the division, meaning he didn’t fatten his KO record with tomato cans.

Knocking a man unconscious is a rare thing in boxing, particularly once you pass the journeyman level, but take note, Jeffries KO’d Fitz cold, and had Corbett out like a log until the count ended. He destroyed Munroe and Everett ( both of whom were in their prime ) faster than any one. Jackson was out like a puppet who’s strings had be cut, a mess in the ropes and could not have made to his own corner unassisted. The police stoppage you ascertain for Jackson needs a qualifier, but I don’t expect fair minded reporting form you. Corbett in the 2nd fight would not have lasted another round. In fact there are news reads that say he was down for a long count.

Rickard said Jeffries hit harder than Dempsey. Now do you think Dempsey was just a “ solid puncher “ ? Of Coues not! Your double standard and agenda will not play with anyone familiar on the subject material.

Very few knowdegeable fight fans will say Quarry hit harder. In fact almost none will. And the vast majority will say Jeffries hit hard than Quarry.

What round did he knock down Armstrong in ?
Everett was on his feet at the finish the referee intervened.
He had beaten no one of any note at this time, and 8 months previously he had lost to Young Peter Jackson a welterweight, Everett was kod clean 9 times in his career.He was never a top fighter.

Jack Munroe ? Is this really the best you can do?

Jackson was an alcoholic, consumptive who was 37 years old, he had been retired for 3 years, .GET REAL . Fight stopped by Police.

Are you aware that Jackson was beaten up in training for the Jeffries fight by his trainer Patsy Corrigan ,Corrigan was an ex lightweight!

Prior to this Jackson had been floored by Jim Corbett's brother Harry in a saloon a couple of doors down from Corbett's poolroom, this was on Nov 3rd 1897. Previously he had come second in a fight with local tough Jim McMahon,on both occasions Jackson was drunk.

I've never said Quarry hit harder than Jeffries,I said Jeffries was a solid puncher but not a top flight one,and that Quarry may have had comparable power.

You've produced NOTHING that makes even a half - coherent rebuttal.
You waste my time.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:45 AM   #41
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

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mcvey says :What round did he knock down Armstrong in ?
You have to be the densest most bigoted person I ever encountered on the web. And you’re wrong more often than a broken clock. But no worries, I shall allow you and others reading information.

Jeffries floors Armstrong in the 10th, and would have finished him if for a broken thumb, and the ten round distance: “ In the tenth Jeffries put Bob flat on his back with a left hand swing on the head “

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So my statement that Jeffries ( whom you seem to question in term of punching power ) floored all of his opponents, save his comeback fight in 1910 stands. Only a puncher could do this. I bet you'll forget later...

Quote:
Everett was on his feet at the finish the referee intervened.

Everett was 21-3 when he meet Jeffries, and in his prime. His three losses were via points 2x, and DQ1. Jeffries floored him three times in three rounds, and it wasn’t a contest. Oh, by the way Everett and Jack Johnson fought a few years later in 1901. The result was a draw! So Jeffries blows out Everett in three rounds yet Johnson can only manage a draw in 20 rounds. A bit of a compare and contrast

Quote:
Jack Munroe ? Is this really the best you can do?
What opponents did Lewis, or Foreman KO cold? None. Do you question their power? You asked who Jeffries Ko'd cold, and I gave you two names ( Fitz and Corbett ). Munroe was out in round one for the count, and had to be dragged back to his corner.

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Jackson was an alcoholic, consumptive who was 37 years old, he had been retired for 3 years, .GET REAL . Fight stopped by Police.
Once again, Jackson could not rise. He was out, not on his feet. The police stoppage means nothing here, save to prevent a man from getting killed. As for Jackson, I could show you news reports that say he was 1 ) in shape, and 2 ) looking good in camp leading up to the fight. In fact, Jackson had a very good 1st round. He was sharp, but could not take Jeffries power in round two, and was floored twice, then left a tangled mess in the ropes in round three.

Keep positng, and remember your lies, agenda, or mistakes will not stand here...at least if I choose to read and reply your drivel.

END.

Last edited by Mendoza; 12-06-2012 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:25 PM   #42
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
You have to be the densest most bigoted person I ever encountered on the web. And you’re wrong more often than a broken clock. But no worries, I shall allow you and others reading information.

Jeffries floors Armstrong in the 10th, and would have finished him if for a broken thumb, and the ten round distance: “ In the tenth Jeffries put Bob flat on his back with a left hand swing on the head “

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

So my statement that Jeffries ( whom you seem to question in term of punching power ) floored all of his opponents, save his comeback fight in 1910 stands. Only a puncher could do this. I bet you'll forget later...




Everett was 21-3 when he meet Jeffries, and in his prime. His three losses were via points 2x, and DQ1. Jeffries floored him three times in three rounds, and it wasn’t a contest. Oh, by the way Everett and Jack Johnson fought a few years later in 1901. The result was a draw! So Jeffries blows out Everett in three rounds yet Johnson can only manage a draw in 20 rounds. A bit of a compare and contrast



What opponents did Lewis, or Foreman KO cold? None. Do you question their power? You asked who Jeffries Ko'd cold, and I gave you two names ( Fitz and Corbett ). Munroe was out in round one for the count, and had to be dragged back to his corner.



Once again, Jackson could not rise. He was out, not on his feet. The police stoppage means nothing here, save to prevent a man from getting killed. As for Jackson, I could show you news reports that say he was 1 ) in shape, and 2 ) looking good in camp leading up to the fight. In fact, Jackson had a very good 1st round. He was sharp, but could not take Jeffries power in round two, and was floored twice, then left a tangled mess in the ropes in round three.

Keep positng, and remember your lies, agenda, or mistakes will not stand here...at least if I choose to read and reply your drivel.

END.

Serious question.
Are you making all these grammatical mistakes UNPURPOSE?

Keep POSITNG because, God Bless You, you do make me laugh.
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:37 PM   #43
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

Jeffries has long been considered a huge puncher...like for 100 years. Whether he knocked opponents down for the 10 count is irrelevant. Sitting back 107 years after he gave up the title looking at records and trying to rewrite history that has already been well written is a joke.
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:37 PM   #44
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

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Jeffries has long been considered a huge puncher...like for 100 years. Whether he knocked opponents down for the 10 count is irrelevant. Sitting back 107 years after he gave up the title looking at records and trying to rewrite history that has already been well written is a joke.
Which heavyweights in their prime , of any class did he ko?

Would Tom Sharkey175/180lbs 5' 8" tall who was twice kod with one punch by Fitzsimmons go 25rds ,and 20 rds, with small gloves against Liston, Foreman, Dempsey, Louis, Lewis,Tyson.
Would a 33 years old ,2 years retired Corbett at 188lbs ,go 23rds with any of them?

Would a 167lbs Choynski go 20rds to a draw with any of them ?
Such a fight would not be allowed.

Jeffries was NOT A HUGE PUNCHER ,and his record proves it.
He isnt even mentioned in the 100 greatest punchers list .Im not rewriting history, I'm stating facts ,and check mating agenda driven posters such as Mendoza. I haven't even made a pick as to the winner.

Jeffries was a comparative giant, hitting on much smaller, older, coming out of retirement, recycled ex champions, and face first brawlers like Sharkey ,whom he could not stop in 45rds.

Jack Johnson ,who saw all Jeffries championship fights from ringside, and faced the over the hill Jeffries said that Jeffries had ",a solid wallop", but he was not in the class of either Fitz or Choynski for power.Sharkey,Corbett, and Fitz, all tabbed Choynski as a bigger hitter.


I think the jokes on you H.

Last edited by mcvey; 12-06-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:43 PM   #45
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Would Tom Sharkey175/180lbs 5' 8" tall who was twice kod with one punch by Fitzsimmons go 25rds ,and 20 rds, with small gloves against Liston, Foreman, Dempsey, Louis, Lewis,Tyson.
Not necisarily.

If their left arm was out of action, he might just get them out of there sooner.

Quote:
Would a 33 years old ,2 years retired Corbett at 188lbs ,go 23rds with any of them?
You can never say never.

Quote:
Would a 167lbs Choynski go 20rds to a draw with any of them ?
Such a fight would not be allowed.
I would hesitate to pick any heavyweight with that level of experience over Choynski.

I guess we just don't see these fights the same way.
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