Joe Calzaghe: a wasted career?

[moneypaysbills]

Originally Posted by bailey

Almost everyone that scored the fight for Hopkins is lying to themselves and others. I understand that Hopkins is an American legend that people want to see as an iconic figure. America love a reformist and Hopkins as a former armed robber turned world champ is just the story that wins Americas hearts but...

Here are some solid facts
1. Calzaghe landed more than 100 punches than Hopkins throughout the fight.
2. Contrary to what people want to believe, Calzaghe also made Hopkins miss more
3. All round punch percentages, Calzaghe finished ahead of Hopkins
4. Calzaghe outlanded Hopkins in every round
5. A Byrd who scored for Hopkins it appears has a history for bad scorecards. Type in Adalaide Byrd in Google and see what comes up for yourself, still here are some little things for you to look at
a. A Byrd was the only judge out of the 3 scoring judges that had Mack ahead against Cloud
b. The K Pavlik - A Lopez fight was scored 98-92, 99-91 by the other 2 judges, A Byrd scored it 95-95
c. A Byrd was one of the judges that had Morales a 4 point loser against Maidana
d. In the S Aydin vs S Ouali fight, the other 2 judges scored clearly for Aydin. Byrd scored for Ouali
e. The J Almaraz/C Tyler fight was scored a Maj-Dec all because of one judge, guess which? A Byrd
f. The A DeMarco/J Reyes fight was a SD. Guess who the odd judge out was? A Byrd.
g. The R Torres - M Arnaoutis fight was a close fight, a point either way to 2 judges but a wide result scored by Byrd
h. In the A Pryor Jr/D Stanislavjevic SD, guess who the odd judge out was? You guessed it... A Byrd
i. The W Ferguson/J Lopez SD, guess who the odd judge out was? You guessed it... A Byrd

I think thats enough for you to get the picture with Byrd. Remember the other 2 judges scored clearly for Calzaghe

6. Calzaghe beat Hopkins in America, at a new weight with 3 American judges and Cortez as ref.
7. Calzaghe scored the single highest score card against Hopkins ever 116-111.
8. The 2 judges that scored for Calzaghe agreed on 9 of the rounds
9. Calzaghe landed more on Hopkins than anyone ever.




Now I know there will be a flood of people coming on here noting Hopkins scoring a flash KD in the first round, and I agree that Hopkins did win a few rounds even when he didnt land as often, but people are mad if they think Calzaghe won on workrate, Calzaghe won because he was able to land his left more often than Hopkins could land his right.
Calzaghe finished the stronger and took away the moments Hopkins likes down the stretch.
Other thoughts, If Hopkins thought he was winning, do you think he would have been looking for time out and would bother trying to get points deducted off of Calzaghe, of course he wouldnt, Hopkins knew he was losing.

What I do note is that nobody seems to mind Hopkins lost to Taylor. In the first Hopkins/Taylor fight, Jermaine was badly hurt and Hopkins looked the stronger at the end, yet it seems to upset alot of these people that Calzaghe beat Hopkins. Appears very biased.

Top top post, couldn't have put it better myself

[Bill C84]

Originally Posted by bailey

Almost everyone that scored the fight for Hopkins is lying to themselves and others. I understand that Hopkins is an American legend that people want to see as an iconic figure. America love a reformist and Hopkins as a former armed robber turned world champ is just the story that wins Americas hearts but...

Here are some solid facts
1. Calzaghe landed more than 100 punches than Hopkins throughout the fight.
2. Contrary to what people want to believe, Calzaghe also made Hopkins miss more
3. All round punch percentages, Calzaghe finished ahead of Hopkins
4. Calzaghe outlanded Hopkins in every round
5. A Byrd who scored for Hopkins it appears has a history for bad scorecards. Type in Adalaide Byrd in Google and see what comes up for yourself, still here are some little things for you to look at
a. A Byrd was the only judge out of the 3 scoring judges that had Mack ahead against Cloud
b. The K Pavlik - A Lopez fight was scored 98-92, 99-91 by the other 2 judges, A Byrd scored it 95-95
c. A Byrd was one of the judges that had Morales a 4 point loser against Maidana
d. In the S Aydin vs S Ouali fight, the other 2 judges scored clearly for Aydin. Byrd scored for Ouali
e. The J Almaraz/C Tyler fight was scored a Maj-Dec all because of one judge, guess which? A Byrd
f. The A DeMarco/J Reyes fight was a SD. Guess who the odd judge out was? A Byrd.
g. The R Torres - M Arnaoutis fight was a close fight, a point either way to 2 judges but a wide result scored by Byrd
h. In the A Pryor Jr/D Stanislavjevic SD, guess who the odd judge out was? You guessed it... A Byrd
i. The W Ferguson/J Lopez SD, guess who the odd judge out was? You guessed it... A Byrd

I think thats enough for you to get the picture with Byrd. Remember the other 2 judges scored clearly for Calzaghe

6. Calzaghe beat Hopkins in America, at a new weight with 3 American judges and Cortez as ref.
7. Calzaghe scored the single highest score card against Hopkins ever 116-111.
8. The 2 judges that scored for Calzaghe agreed on 9 of the rounds
9. Calzaghe landed more on Hopkins than anyone ever.




Now I know there will be a flood of people coming on here noting Hopkins scoring a flash KD in the first round, and I agree that Hopkins did win a few rounds even when he didnt land as often, but people are mad if they think Calzaghe won on workrate, Calzaghe won because he was able to land his left more often than Hopkins could land his right.
Calzaghe finished the stronger and took away the moments Hopkins likes down the stretch.
Other thoughts, If Hopkins thought he was winning, do you think he would have been looking for time out and would bother trying to get points deducted off of Calzaghe, of course he wouldnt, Hopkins knew he was losing.

What I do note is that nobody seems to mind Hopkins lost to Taylor. In the first Hopkins/Taylor fight, Jermaine was badly hurt and Hopkins looked the stronger at the end, yet it seems to upset alot of these people that Calzaghe beat Hopkins. Appears very biased.

Originally Posted by moneypaysbills

Top top post, couldn't have put it better myself

Do you two want some time alone?

It seems you both have much to discuss.

[achillesthegreat]

Yes, he is a low level great and I expect in time his 168 achievements to be overtaken. Ward seems well on his way to doing so, if he hasn't done so already.

Had he stepped up earlier he had a chance to be on par with the best of em. Just imagine had he battled it out with Hopkins, Toney, Jones etc when they were hot property.

[HeavyT]

To an extent in the same way as someone like Chris Eubank.

[Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Dai

I've got a lot of appreciation for the man's talent.

But his resume is diabolical.

Even if you give him a pass for not fighting Jones, Hopkins or toney when they were near their primes, there is a ton of other people he could have fought, and beat who would have improved his legacy.

Glen Johnson, Antonio tarver, Kelly pavlik, sven ottke, Anthony Mundine, Carl froch, chad Dawson, jermain Taylor.

You'd back him to beat all of them but he didn't fight them.

Andre Ward eclipsed calzaghes entire career in two years.

Joe has to go down as a huge disappointment

Posting this thread in here is like walking into a Southern Baptist church and asking if Jesus sucked his Apostles' dicks.

[Slothrop]

Originally Posted by achillesthegreat

Yes, he is a low level great and I expect in time his 168 achievements to be overtaken. Ward seems well on his way to doing so, if he hasn't done so already.

Had he stepped up earlier he had a chance to be on par with the best of em. Just imagine had he battled it out with Hopkins, Toney, Jones etc when they were hot property.

He would've had his ass handed to him.

[TIGEREDGE]

Originally Posted by Dai

I've got a lot of appreciation for the man's talent.

But his resume is diabolical.

Even if you give him a pass for not fighting Jones, Hopkins or toney when they were near their primes, there is a ton of other people he could have fought, and beat who would have improved his legacy.

Glen Johnson, Antonio tarver, Kelly pavlik, sven ottke, Anthony Mundine, Carl froch, chad Dawson, jermain Taylor.

You'd back him to beat all of them but he didn't fight them.

Andre Ward eclipsed calzaghes entire career in two years.

Joe has to go down as a huge disappointment

i think the early parts of his career were wasted but he made up for it from 05-08

glen johnson made his name with a win over jones at light heavy in 2004. jc never moved up til 08

dont go there with sven oittke. joke of a champ

froch and dawson were only coming up when jc retired. jc retired in nov 08. froch won first title next month

lacy, kessler, hopkins were the best guys he could of fought and he did

[TIGEREDGE]

Originally Posted by TIGEREDGE

i think the early parts of his career were wasted but he made up for it from 05-08

glen johnson made his name with a win over jones at light heavy in 2004. jc never moved up til 08

dont go there with sven oittke. joke of a champ

froch and dawson were only coming up when jc retired. jc retired in nov 08. froch won first title next month

lacy, kessler, hopkins were the best guys he could of fought and he did

lacy was the second coming of mike tyson. jc was 3-4 to 1 to win

kessler was also favoured to beat him

[BlackBrenny]

Bailey telling fools how it is as usual, Calzaghe is an ATG easy

[Slothrop]

Originally Posted by BlackBrenny

Bailey telling fools how it is as usual, Calzaghe is an ATG easy

Bailey hugging a long-retired fighter's nuts all day long on an internet boxing forum, copying and pasting inane screeds off of his hard drive, like usual.

[BlackBrenny]

Originally Posted by Slothrop

Bailey hugging a long-retired fighter's nuts all day long on an internet boxing forum, copying and pasting inane screeds off of his hard drive, like usual.

Don't be so tight dude!

[ame]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ge2oCEH6NI[/ame]

[Slothrop]

Originally Posted by BlackBrenny

Don't be so tight dude!

[URL]***********.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ge2oCEH6NI[/URL]

I like Joe. Don't get me wrong. But I find many of his fans on this board insufferable.

[JOSEY WALES]

Lol @ Bailey owning all the knockers , great posts and only insults in return as he predicted . Joe was a fantastic fighter and retired a travelled unbeaten multi millionaire ( oh and let's not forget a first ballot IBHOF lock to boot ) some wasted career he had going on there .

[norfolkinchance]

i undersrtand the sentiment of the OP. It wasn't a wasted career but it could hasve been so much more! if he had taken on taylor or pavlik when they had just won the middleweight crown they would have been 2 great scalps. dawson would have been awesome too, even if he had to move up to get it. and froch as a domestic challenger would now look extremly good on his resume.

so add taylor, dawson and froch onto his resume and his legacy improves a lot!

[brown bomber]

I've always being a bit of a Calzaghe critic ... I think he flapped his punches and his show boating was cringey to say the least. He was however superbly consistent.

I initially scored the fight for Hopkins but when I watched it again I scored fairly clearly for Calzaghe. Any doubt about his greatness was removed by shredding up and coming Lacy (who was the real deal until that point) and Kessler who has gone on to be superb.

I like Calzaghe. I find him a nice chap. I hated him when he was boxing, and I hated his slappy style and inflated opinion of himself. However he's grown in me since he retired.

H2h I think prime Benn, prime Toney and prime jones all beat him quite easily but that's all hearsay. He did great you have to give him that.