How can people call Klitschko an ATG?

[Collie]

History will be kind on Wlad esp if he has another few years dominance and title defences. They will be atgs but have a ceiling due to their average resumes.

[LuckyLuke]

Originally Posted by tezel8764

Was Expecting This:
http://i.minus.com/i6jrkCLBDibCl.gif

But Got this:
http://i.minus.com/i7tT0CnSnf6y8.gif

Round 1 vs Round 8?
Stupid

[LuckyLuke]

Originally Posted by Dai

That's the story of Wlads life.

Safety first, even when he has ridiculous physical advantage

Safety first wlad, safety first

So whats bad about that?
I can clearly see you dont have any clue about boxing or even fought yourself.
Defensive is a big part of boxing. And Wlad is very good in it.

[madballster]

Originally Posted by Wenpire

he doesn't have the ability or heart to recover once his glass chin is touched.

Really now? I wonder how he ended up winning the first fight vs. Peter then

[dinovelvet]

You will never see Wlad duke it out like Holmes v Norton. He doen't have the bravery or the warrior mentality. What good for him isn't good for me, its a specator sport and he doen't entertain. Ill never respect a fighter who holds excessively the way he does when a fight isn't going his way because he doesn't have the tools or courage to fight in close.

Lewis is rememberd fondly because he fought ATGs ,came back and avenged his only 2 loses and retired on a victory against Vitali who went on to dominate for ten years.

Nobody will remember any of the guys Wlad fought, he never tried to avenge his loss and let his big brother take care of Sanders for him. He's never taken big risks in his career and certainly wont be taking any in the next year or two. Expect another 3 joke fights and retirement.
Pulev, Fury, Price maybe even Povektin will all be avoided.

[Faerun]

Originally Posted by Faerun

I consider Wlad an ATG on longevity and longevity alone. He would be pretty much the first HW ATG to not have a single relevant win on his resume but it is what it is I suppose. You clearly can't take away his streak over such a long strech. Haye and Byrd are his two best wins and both are nothing but B-level. So depending on what your criteria for ATGness look like, the OP's suggestion that Wlad ain't an ATG is not too far-fetched even though I disagree.

CHEF, can you respond to this as opposed to slurring "ban" and "troll" to whoever disagrees with ya? How many ATG HWs are on your personal list that don't have a single A-level scalp on their resume? What are your criteria? Mine are:

- Resume (far and ahead the most important and Wlad lacks terribly in this department compared to others)
- Longevity (Wlad shines here, no question about it)
- Skills (I find him to be terribly limited but his jab-right-hand combo is pretty fucking devastating and executed perfectly)
- Losses (terrible losses and he only ever avenged one against an aged opponent who slew him when he was younger)

[LuckyLuke]

Originally Posted by Faerun

CHEF, can you respond to this as opposed to slurring "ban" and "troll" to whoever disagrees with ya? How many ATG HWs are on your personal list that don't have a single A-level scalp on their resume? What are your criteria? Mine are:

- Resume (far and ahead the most important and Wlad lacks terribly in this department compared to others)
- Longevity (Wlad shines here, no question about it)
- Skills (I find him to be terribly limited but his jab-right-hand combo is pretty fucking devastating and executed perfectly)
- Losses (terrible losses and he only ever avenged one against an aged opponent who slew him when he was younger)

What A Level scalp does Tyson have?
Holmes? Spinks? Then Wlad has also some A Level Scalps

[Faerun]

Originally Posted by LuckyLuke

What A Level scalp does Tyson have?
Holmes? Spinks? Then Wlad has also some A Level Scalps

I'm a Tyson sceptic and don't have him in my top 10 due to the reasons you mentioned. His win over Holmes is pretty good though when you consider that Holmes went on to give Holyfield a good fight years later.

[LuckyLuke]

Originally Posted by Faerun

I'm a Tyson sceptic and don't have him in my top 10 due to the reasons you mentioned. His win over Holmes is pretty good though when you consider that Holmes went on to give Holyfield a good fight years later.

Well against Tyson Holmes came out of retirement.
The Holmes Holyfield fought was way better.

[tezel8764]

Originally Posted by LuckyLuke

Well against Tyson Holmes came out of retirement.
The Holmes Holyfield fought was way better.

IMO Holmes prime was from 78-82 the Cooney bout.

Holmes' Post Tyson Resume:

1991 Tim Anderson 25-13-0 W
1991 Eddie Gonzales 26-13-1 W
1991 Michael Greer 42-11-3 W
1991 Art Card 9- 3-0 W
1991 Jamie Howe 15-13-1 W
1992 Ray Mercer 18- 0-0 W
1992 Evander Holyfield 27- 0-0 L
1993 Everett Martin 18-15-1 W
1993 Rocky Pepeli 16- 6-1 W
1993 Ken Lakusta 21-19-1 W
1993 Paul Poirier 31- 2-0 W
1993 Jose Ribalta 32- 9-1 W
1994 Garing Lane 11-10-1 W
1994 Jesse Ferguson 20-12-0 W
1995 Oliver McCall 25- 5-0 L
1995 Ed Donaldson 11- 4-0 W
1996 Curtis Shepard 14- 2-0 W
1996 Quinn Navarre 17- 3-1 W
1996 Anthony Willis 15- 4-0 W
1997 Brian Nielsen 31- 0-0 L
1997 Maurice Harris 9- 8-2 W
1999 James Smith 44-16-1 W
2000 Mike Weaver 41-17-1 W
2002 Butterbean 65- 2-3 W

Apart from the Holyfield & Mercer bout, his post Tyson form is greatly exaggerated. I like Holmes by the way. He was even more past it at 42 years of age against Holyfield. Remember; Styles make fights and Tyson's was never going to match up well with Holmes prime or not.

[Overhill]

Originally Posted by LuckyLuke

What A Level scalp does Tyson have?
Holmes? Spinks? Then Wlad has also some A Level Scalps

Fear was huge factor in Holmes and Spinks fights. If that means anything.

[Faerun]

Originally Posted by LuckyLuke

Well against Tyson Holmes came out of retirement.
The Holmes Holyfield fought was way better.

He got better with age due to fighting regularly? Very debatable, mate, and hardly a fact. Let's stick to what actually and verifiably happened, okay?


That said, I like Tyson and I do consider him an A minus boxer in his prime - just not as good as the very best like Lewis, Holyfield, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, you name them.

[LuckyLuke]

Originally Posted by Faerun

He got better with age due to fighting regularly? Very debatable, mate, and hardly a fact. Let's stick to what actually and verifiably happened, okay?


That said, I like Tyson and I do consider him an A minus boxer in his prime - just not as good as the very best like Lewis, Holyfield, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, you name them.

Yeah I think a boxer who comes directly out of retirement is not as good as a boxer who has fighting practice.

As i said, if Tyson is an ATG Wlad is also one.

[Faerun]

Originally Posted by LuckyLuke

Yeah I think a boxer who comes directly out of retirement is not as good as a boxer who has fighting practice.

As i said, if Tyson is an ATG Wlad is also one.

I consider Wlad an ATG and have Tyson ranked below him so we're not disagreeing. However, one can make a good case for Wlad (and Tyson) not being ATGs. It's all subjective of course and it depends what your ATG criteria are and how you weigh them. Tyson was the youngest HW champ ever and that's a tremendous achievement, probably better than everything either Klit has accomplished in their careers combined. On the other hand, one could argue that Berbick was a poor champ so it's up to you.

Klittard ignorance is the main annoyance factor here. Unless you agree with their opinion, you're clearly a troll, hater, brittard and deserve a ban. Yeah, right.

[On The Money]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

You will never see Wlad duke it out like Holmes v Norton. He doen't have the bravery or the warrior mentality. What good for him isn't good for me, its a specator sport and he doen't entertain. Ill never respect a fighter who holds excessively the way he does when a fight isn't going his way because he doesn't have the tools or courage to fight in close.

Lewis is rememberd fondly because he fought ATGs ,came back and avenged his only 2 loses and retired on a victory against Vitali who went on to dominate for ten years.

Nobody will remember any of the guys Wlad fought, he never tried to avenge his loss and let his big brother take care of Sanders for him. He's never taken big risks in his career and certainly wont be taking any in the next year or two. Expect another 3 joke fights and retirement.
Pulev, Fury, Price maybe even Povektin will all be avoided.

Such a misinformed and innacurate post. Wlad haters do not improve with the years, even though the man's been at the top for so long and is a credit to boxing, making lots of dough for everybody in the game. The thought of going back to the ABC belt holders we had during other eras and lesser attendances in glorified halls instead of football stadiums means nothing. And mate, Sanders, god rest him, chose to relinquish the WBO belt for the vastly bigger payday verses Vitali. Wlad did not dodge the guy at all. No doubt you were one of the roasters that claimed Haye would knock him out and is still hurting.