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Old 12-06-2012, 06:54 PM   #46
HOUDINI
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

Corbett was rated over Louis and Dempsey at one point in time. he was a great all time boxer so of course he could outbox bigger punchers. Would he in actuality who knows but certainly he had the ability to do so. Jeff was a converted Southpaw so he carried a brutal left hook. I believe Fleischer rated his left hook as the best all time in the hwt division as per his book 50 years at ringside.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:48 AM   #47
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[quote=janitor;14343049]
Quote:


Not necisarily.

If their left arm was out of action, he might just get them out of there sooner.



You can never say never.



I would hesitate to pick any heavyweight with that level of experience over Choynski.

I guess we just don't see these fights the same way.
Sharkey had a damaged hand in their second fight too but no one mentioned that.Jeffries was sound for their first fight ,he didnt stop Tom then.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:05 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Corbett was rated over Louis and Dempsey at one point in time. he was a great all time boxer so of course he could outbox bigger punchers. Would he in actuality who knows but certainly he had the ability to do so. Jeff was a converted Southpaw so he carried a brutal left hook. I believe Fleischer rated his left hook as the best all time in the hwt division as per his book 50 years at ringside.

Corbett in his prime yes, not the older retired Corbett who had been out of the ring for 2 years and, whose last win was over a middleweight 6 years before
.P S The best punchers Corbett had met , immediately previous to Jeffries,[ Fitz & Sharkey ] beat him.And it didnt take them 23rds to do it, one was 167lbs the other 176lbs 6lbs & 14lbs lighter than Jim and so a super middle, and a light heavy.Jeffries was 30lbs HEAVIER than Corbett.

I wonder on what Fleischer based this ,as he never saw any of Jeffries title defences. I very much doubt he was at Reno in 1910 either.

In an extended article in the Ring entitled "Fleischer battles Dempsey ", both Nat and the former champion picked their best heavyweight punchers .If memory serves , Fleischer picked Dempsey, Dempsey picked Marciano.Jeffries was not even mentioned. I still have this mag somewhere . Since Dempsey's best punch was his left hook I think you are amiss somewhere. In the book you mention Fleischer rated Fitz as the best ko puncher ,the best hooker ,and the best body puncher.

Last edited by mcvey; 12-07-2012 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:22 AM   #49
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Serious question.
Are you making all these grammatical mistakes UNPURPOSE?

Keep POSITNG because, God Bless You, you do make me laugh.
>>>When you are out of ammunition, this ( and the race card ) is all you have. You make plenty of spelling, math, and grammatical errors too.

You have to be the densest most bigoted person I ever encountered on the web. And you’re wrong more often than a broken clock. But no worries, I shall allow you and others reading information.

Jeffries floors Armstrong in the 10th, and would have finished him if for a broken thumb, and the ten round distance: “ In the tenth Jeffries put Bob flat on his back with a left hand swing on the head “

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

So my statement that Jeffries ( whom you seem to question in term of punching power ) floored all of his opponents, save his comeback fight in 1910 stands. Only a puncher could do this. I bet you'll forget later...




Everett was 21-3 when he meet Jeffries, and in his prime. His three losses were via points 2x, and DQ1. Jeffries floored him three times in three rounds, and it wasn’t a contest. Oh, by the way Everett and Jack Johnson fought a few years later in 1901. The result was a draw! So Jeffries blows out Everett in three rounds yet Johnson can only manage a draw in 20 rounds. A bit of a compare and contrast



What opponents did Lewis, or Foreman KO cold? None. Do you question their power? You asked who Jeffries Ko'd cold, and I gave you two names ( Fitz and Corbett ). Munroe was out in round one for the count, and had to be dragged back to his corner.



Once again, Jackson could not rise. He was out, not on his feet. The police stoppage means nothing here, save to prevent a man from getting killed. As for Jackson, I could show you news reports that say he was 1 ) in shape, and 2 ) looking good in camp leading up to the fight. In fact, Jackson had a very good 1st round. He was sharp, but could not take Jeffries power in round two, and was floored twice, then left a tangled mess in the ropes in round three.

Keep posting, and remember your lies, agenda, or mistakes will not stand here...at least if I choose to read and reply your drivel.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:33 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Jeffries has long been considered a huge puncher...like for 100 years. Whether he knocked opponents down for the 10 count is irrelevant. Sitting back 107 years after he gave up the title looking at records and trying to rewrite history that has already been well written is a joke.
Its not a joke Houdini, with McVey its an obsession As I pointed to McVey that Jeffries floored every man he meet, save his come back fight in 1910. No other champion can say this. A few times the opponent was either unconscious, or needed medical attention after the fight from injuries caused by punches. Only a big puncher could do this. The links and testimonials can be found in this thread.

I have seen a rare film of Jeffries hitting a heavy bag. In those days the bags were filled with sand, making them far heavier than the bags that are used today. Jeffries re-arranges the stuffing, and violently makes the bag jerk in the directions his fist were headed it. A comparison to Liston can be made, and Sonny was one of the best heavy bag punchers of all time. I wish someone could put it on you tube.

If one were to ask which opponents did Klitschko or Lewis knock unconscious? The answer is zero, however we know they are big punchers.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:45 AM   #51
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post

I wonder on what Fleischer based this ,as he never saw any of Jeffries title defences. I very much doubt he was at Reno in 1910 either.

Nat likely saw films of Jeffries in the ring with Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Munroe, Sharkey and Rhulin. All of these fights were flimed. It is an elementary deduction that the films around in 1920’s were in far better shape than what is left today. Nat lived boxing. He saw whatever he could. So to say Fleischer never saw any of Jeffries title defenses is very misleading.

Keep up the good work!
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:56 AM   #52
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

Quarry is too small, Jeffries would smash him like a fly.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:15 AM   #53
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Jim Jeffries has to be one of the most over-rated fighters of all time. He only had 23 fights. How many different styles and experience did he see and develop in that time? He was a fight to the finish type fighter. He traded off on his ability to absorb gobs of punishment to be successful at boxing when it was in it's infancy. Let's face it, if he was fighting under more modern rules we would never even be discussing Jim Jeffries because he would have been outpointed by little Jim Corbett over 15 rounds and had been stooped on cuts by little Bob Fitzsimmons. Am I right? Of course you're going to hear Nat Fleischer lauding and praising Jeffries. Did you ever see Nat's top tens in every division? Almost every figher was a turn of the century fighter. These were his heroes. Jeffries was a clubbing puncher. The kind that Jerry Quarry ate for breakfast every time. Quarry had problems with the speedy, sharp styles like Frazier and Ali not the clubbing punchers like Lyle, Foster, Shavers and Chuvalo (until that goofy, "I lost the count" debacle anyway). Quarry was a counter-puncher with a good jaw. The bane of every big clubbing puncher is a counter-puncher with a good jaw. In my opinion formed over 45 years in boxing, Jim Jeffries was a cruder version of George Chuvalo and would never have survived in the more modern game.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:25 PM   #54
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Nat likely saw films of Jeffries in the ring with Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Munroe, Sharkey and Rhulin. All of these fights were flimed. It is an elementary deduction that the films around in 1920’s were in far better shape than what is left today. Nat lived boxing. He saw whatever he could. So to say Fleischer never saw any of Jeffries title defenses is very misleading.

Keep up the good work!
The old films have actually been digitally enhanced and remastered . Nat Fleischer DID see several of Jack Johnson's title defences and rated him the greatest heavyweight of all time.Rather inconvenient for you.


Among others}
Lewis kod Grant, McCrory,Weaver,Golota,Tyson.


Wlad ko'd Peter,Mormeck,Thompson, Austin,Chambers.

Munroe? Your fanciful account of the debacle between Jeffries ,and Munroe is directly at odds with the ringside fight reports. Jeffries did NOT drop Munroe for the count in the 1st rd nor was Munroe dragged back to his corner. Neither was he ko'd in the 2nd rd ,the referee stopped the fight with Munroe on his feet.
Here is PROOF, unlike you I back up my statements with facts.


ROUND ONE_" Munroe after a little fiddling was the
first to lead. He shot out the left, but
the blow was provokingly short. Jeffries
smiled and danced around his opponent
and the drew him into a clinch. He tried
a right for the body, but missed.
A clinch followed, and then Munroe
tried the right, but could not connect.
Jeffries chewed gum and grinned. Then
with a spurt Jeffries sent over the left and
hooked the miner on the jaw.
Munroe went down, but got up smartly.
Jeffries then waded in again and drove a
straight right to the head and followed
with a left swing to the wind. The champion
would not give the miner any rest, but was
after him sending Munroe to the ropes
with right and left on the body.
Jeffries then put the left for a well directed
punch. The blow landed on the jaw and
Munroe went down and remained on the
floor for eight seconds. He arose, but
was again floored with a similar punch.
Munroe started a vicious right for the jaw
but the bell rang and the champion checked
the blow. The miner did not land a punch
in this round and worried when he took
his chair.
ROUND TWO
_ They went to a clinch, Munroe receiving
a left swing to the mouth that made him
spit blood. He bored in, but Jeffries was
after him, smashing him all over the body
with lefts and rights and flooring him.
Blood flowed from Jack's face and mouth.
Another straight terrific right to the face
rendered the miner helpless. He sank
slowly to the floor and attempted to rise,
but Jeffries was waiting for him.
Before the champion could land on his
helpless victim, however, Referee Graney
grabbed him and declared Jeffries the
winner.
_ Munroe was completely outclassed and
seemed to be frightened while sitting in his
corner before the fight started."

That was printed in the NY Sun on August the 27th, 1904 the morning after the fight, by their ringside reporter.




A travesty of a title defence , which Jeffries became ashamed of ,because he knew Munroe did not warrant a title shot.

" I never did think he had the right to be taken seriously" Jeffries referring to his" fight" with Munroe.


"I hated to enter the ring in San Francisco that night, for I felt that Munroe could not give me a contest"


Jim Jeffries Jan 1910


Want proof?

Read the link on my thread "Jeffries admits Munroe did not merit a title shot" , posted yesterday.


Now ,since I have provided two primary sources rebutting your fairy tales, perhaps you will endeavour to find primary sources to back up your bullshit?

That would certainly be a first .



BTW. Corbett named not Jeffries as the greatest boxer, but Peter Jackson, source ? His autobiography "The Roar Of The Crowd".

I'll throw you a bone, Tommy Burns rated Jeffries as his greatest heavyweight, his no 2? John Arthur Johnson.

Last edited by mcvey; 12-07-2012 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:06 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by bodhi View Post
Quarry is too small, Jeffries would smash him like a fly.
Like he smashed 167lbs Choynski? Or 5'8"177lbs Sharkey?

The average weight of Jeffries opponents in his major fights is 182lbs. Quarry came in between 198 ,and 205lbs when 100% fit.

Anything over 200lbs would make him the biggest class man that Jeffries ever fought, excepting of course his crucifixion by Johnson.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:54 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Like he smashed 167lbs Choynski? Or 5'8"177lbs Sharkey?

The average weight of Jeffries opponents in his major fights is 182lbs. Quarry came in between 198 ,and 205lbs when 100% fit.

Anything over 200lbs would make him the biggest class man that Jeffries ever fought, excepting of course his crucifixion by Johnson.
Hahaha as soon as I saw his comment I was about to say the exact same thing but you beat me to it.

Jeffries best opponents were all much smaller, much older and usually were very inactive and it took Jeffries getting his faced smashed in before he won. Whether some on here want to admit it or not boxing evolved ALOT in the 70 years and if you put Jeffries in the ring with a guy like Quarry he'd probably look like a fool pawing with his left, non-existent jab, lunging in with every punch and excessivley clinching. Quarry just way too skilled.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:02 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by scartissue View Post
Jim Jeffries has to be one of the most over-rated fighters of all time. He only had 23 fights. How many different styles and experience did he see and develop in that time? He was a fight to the finish type fighter. He traded off on his ability to absorb gobs of punishment to be successful at boxing when it was in it's infancy. Let's face it, if he was fighting under more modern rules we would never even be discussing Jim Jeffries because he would have been outpointed by little Jim Corbett over 15 rounds and had been stooped on cuts by little Bob Fitzsimmons. Am I right? Of course you're going to hear Nat Fleischer lauding and praising Jeffries. Did you ever see Nat's top tens in every division? Almost every figher was a turn of the century fighter. These were his heroes. Jeffries was a clubbing puncher. The kind that Jerry Quarry ate for breakfast every time. Quarry had problems with the speedy, sharp styles like Frazier and Ali not the clubbing punchers like Lyle, Foster, Shavers and Chuvalo (until that goofy, "I lost the count" debacle anyway). Quarry was a counter-puncher with a good jaw. The bane of every big clubbing puncher is a counter-puncher with a good jaw. In my opinion formed over 45 years in boxing, Jim Jeffries was a cruder version of George Chuvalo and would never have survived in the more modern game.
Spot on analysis

Although I'm not even convinced he was a puncher to begin with, the much smaller Choynski and Fitzsimmons are constantly rated above Jeffries as harder punchers by men who fought them. Also Jeffries, although green, couldnt even stop the chinny Choynski off in 20 rounds of fighting despite having a 60lbs+ weight advantage and the fact Choynski was stopped by a welterweight.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:16 AM   #58
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

quarry would be too big for jeffries as jeffries liked to feast on middles.quarry by ko
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:33 AM   #59
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by scartissue View Post
Jim Jeffries has to be one of the most over-rated fighters of all time. He only had 23 fights. How many different styles and experience did he see and develop in that time?
Although Jeffries only had about 23 fights, virtualy all of them were against elite or near elite fighters.

If you compare his resume to other ATGs, he has less fights overall, but as many or more against world class opposition.

Quote:
He was a fight to the finish type fighter. He traded off on his ability to absorb gobs of punishment to be successful at boxing when it was in it's infancy.
You don't seem to understand the era, or the nature of Jeffries career. Although his fights were longer than in many subsequent eras, they all had some sort of time limit, and he was proficient over every distance fom four rounds upwards. No fighter of that era would have relied on ability to absorb punishment to win a fight.

You could always in Jeffries fights, rather than trying to reconstruct it from inuendo and chineese whispers.
Quote:
Let's face it, if he was fighting under more modern rules we would never even be discussing Jim Jeffries because he would have been outpointed by little Jim Corbett over 15 rounds and had been stooped on cuts by little Bob Fitzsimmons. Am I right?
No, you are repeating a tired old chesnut.

Fighters adapt their tactics to the ruleset they are fighting under, not one that is going to exist in a hundred years time.

Quote:
Of course you're going to hear Nat Fleischer lauding and praising Jeffries. Did you ever see Nat's top tens in every division? Almost every figher was a turn of the century fighter.
It wasn't just Nat Fleischer.

A lot of people who saw Jeffries fight continued to rate him well into the era of Joe Louis.

Quote:
These were his heroes. Jeffries was a clubbing puncher. The kind that Jerry Quarry ate for breakfast every time. Quarry had problems with the speedy, sharp styles like Frazier and Ali not the clubbing punchers like Lyle, Foster, Shavers and Chuvalo (until that goofy, "I lost the count" debacle anyway). Quarry was a counter-puncher with a good jaw. The bane of every big clubbing puncher is a counter-puncher with a good jaw. In my opinion formed over 45 years in boxing, Jim Jeffries was a cruder version of George Chuvalo and would never have survived in the more modern game.
It is apparent that you don't have a clue what Jeffries style was. The only things he had in common with George Chuvalo are that they both had good chins and used a crouch, and that is about where the similarity ends.

Of course if you will insist on the comparison, then you could hardly use Quarrys performence against Chuvalo to bolster your argument.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:12 AM   #60
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

Fleischer rated Jeffries as the "best left hand puncher". Being a converted Southpaw he must have carried quite a wallop with that punch. Rickard who did see Jeffries rated him the hardest puncher he ever saw including Dempsey. This as well as threads questioning Ali, Louis and Dempseys greatness ad re revisionism in it's worst form. Just pure trash.
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