Joe Calzaghe: a wasted career?

[DamonD]

'Wasted' is a bit harsh.

But I think he could've achieved even more than he did. Too many years spent on humdrum home WBO defences.

Don't have any doubt on the Hopkins fight. Hopkins's spoiling, mauling and box of tricks kept it relatively close but only one guy was actually trying to win that fight and not just hoodwink the judges.

[Laikaka]

[quote=bailey;14342046]

Looks like the ignorant need schooling
Jones chose not to fight him, Hopkins backed out (everyone knows that), and this is where you really show a lack of knowledge, Toney was a CW before Calzaghe even won his first SMW title.
Thats just part of the schooling

Calzaghe had to fight the winner of Johnson/Sheika, Johnson lost, Calzaghe agreed to fight Johnson if Johnson beat Woods in their third fight and was ringside and guess what Johnson lost again
They would have fought in 2004 if Johnson had waited instead of fighting Jones. Johnson told Dan Goosen to forget about Joe. Yet he came running back to Calzaghe when Joe became a superstar after whooping Lacy.

BBC Tuesday, 8 June, 2004

But Johnson is adamant Calzaghe has lost his chance, saying: "The fight is off. I'm not interested in fighting Joe Calzaghe any more.Johnson refused to wait for the fight to be rescheduled on 04,fact.

Calzaghe agreed to fight Johnson in September 06 on the condition that Johnson beat Woods in their 3rd fight. However Johnson lost and missed his chance. Calzaghe was ringside for this fight - some scared ducker hey. Why do people leave out this information when discussing this issue?

and I have a hard time believing Calzaghe would duck an old journeyman like Johnson to fight a younger, much more dangerous Mikkel Kessler!!! and yes Calzaghe WAS injury prone. he was notorious for hand problems.....Many of his fights including Lacy had to be rescheduled. He still ended up fighting them. He wanted to reschedule the Johnson fight but like i saidJ ohnson said he was "done" with Calzaghe.

everybody was beating johnson before he popped up on the hbo screen and knockout that over hyped HBO fighter jones jr

also not once throughout calzaghes reign was johnson ranked in the ringmag top 10!!
Gets completely schooled by Hopkins and beaten easily. Calzaghe fought the winner
Was offered before he won the MW title, when many of his fights were at SMW, but when Calzaghe was at the end of his career, Pavlik was 2 divisions lighter, then gets beat by a Calzaghe left over
You know that Ottke didnt want to fight Calzaghe, Ottkes trainer even said Sven didnt want to know.
Calzaghe looked better against every common opponent they fought.
, now you must be joking. Why didnt Mundine challenge the champ? Mundine lost to Kessler and Calzaghe beat the winner of Mundine / Kessler
When was Calzaghe supposed top fight him?
Froch was an unknown British champ when Calzaghe retired and didnt win a world title until after Calzaghe retired
Did Dawson really want it? Chad moved up from SMW to fight lesser comp at LHW then after Calzaghe retires can then make SMW again . Chad was holding a lesser WBO SMW title so would have been able to get a shot at Calzaghe if he had of stayed at SMW
Wanted 10 mil to face Calzaghe
Indeed you would, except for Ottke who wouldnt fight Calzaghe, everyone of those fighters has a loss that dates back to Calzaghe

How could he? There are no top SMWs at this time and the era is very weak at this time
Still nobody can counter this
Can any Ward fans answer the question below?

Calzaghe beat 3 undefeated fighters who had or went on to claim a SMW title.
Questions to the Ward fans and please dont duck the questions below

1. Someone tell me which top undefeated fighters Ward has beaten?
2. Tell me which top undefeated world champs Ward has fought?


Lets read the answers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Try and debate against this

Andre Ward............VS.............Joe Calzaghe
Froch.....................................Kessler (Kessler the better win) (Kessler beat Froch)
Kessler...................................Eubank (Eubank the better win)
Dawson..................................Lacy (Lacy a proven SMW and winner of 5 SMW title fights. Dawson no pedigree at all at SMW) (Lacy the better win)
Abraham.................................Mitchell (Mitchell a 2 time SMW champ who had never been clearly beaten, only lost by debateable SD in Germany to Ottke, had KOd long time SMW champ Liles, beaten a future SMW champ twice, compared to AA who had done nothing at SMW) (Mitchell better win)
Bika.......................................Brewer (Bikas best win became Manfredo, Brewer had beaten H Graham and was a SMW champ) (Brewer the better win) (Bika was a Calzaghe left over at that time and had been out of the ring bar less than a round for a while)
Green.....................................Woodhall (Woodhall a SMW champ, who had beaten a reigning SMW champ, a world rated former champ, a future SMW champ and Branco a world rated SMW who became WBA LHW champ, who at SMW beat R Reid and G Johnson who when old and shot KOd Green) (Woodhall a better win)
Miranda...................................Bika (Bika now a top 5 SMW had drawn with 3 time SMW champ Beyer) (Bika a better win)
Buchanan (?????)......................Sheika (Sheika a better win) (Sheika was coming off a win over G Johnson and was a top 10 SMW at the time)
Camou (?????)..........................Veit (Veit a SMW title holder who had a fair resume, better than at least 2 of the current top 5 SMWs) (Veit a better win)Then include the Reid win and then the other top 10 SMWs and its clear Calzaghe is well ahead. I could have put Mkertchyan ahead of Green, Camou, Miranda, Buchanon

Very clear but nobody will have a sensible answer to say otherwise, it will just be a lame Faileys losing it answer when they cant debate against

Somebody tell me how Ward has done more than that.



Nobody can counter the above or answer the questions. In fact they hide from the questions

Given the time and effort you spend on this don't you think you'd be better served by looking for some balance to your posts. Look at how you refer to Bika in your comparison of him as a Ward opponent and then as Calzaghe's opponent. To you it's a big issue that Dawson returned to SMW but not for Eubank to do so to fight Calzaghe (as a sub.) Brewer's win over Herol Graham four years prior to facing Calzaghe is seen as relevant but Omar Sheika's loss to Tony Booth two years before his fight with Calzaghe isn't.


You've previously shown on another thread that you pick to either choose or ignore facts whenever it suits your argument.


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


In what parallel world did you get your Ring ratings from?


And did you really think your quotes "a lot of fighters joe calzaghe fought had a minimum of 20 wins with 1 lost" or "...and joe calzaghe has beat people that beat people that beat...graciano rocchigiani, james toney, Kelly Pavlik, Dariusz Michalczewski etc etc. cuts it? That is absolutely desparate man.

What you are advocating for the worthiness of an opponent at world title level is why boxing is in the state it is. He was supposed to be a world champion but you suggest Calzaghe's were worthy because of their record, because once upon a time they either held or fought for an alphabet belt or one day would go on to do that. What do you make of David Price's last two opponents then (both former world title challengers)? Thankfully you stopped short of mentioning a boxer's nationality and the stereotypes sometimes associated with it as another defence of Calzaghe's choice of challenger.

I'm sorry but a title reign of eight and a half years without a unification fight in a multi-title world is very, very poor form. Particularly when that title was such a weak one (WBO.) And how many other alphabet titlists were there during that time? And not a single one of them would entertain the idea of fighting Calzaghe. Really?


Thing is, I liked Joe at the end of his career because he (or his management) finally sought out proper challenges and I rated him. He showed in his last few years how adaptable he was and you felt that somehow he could always find a way to win...a rare thing. Such a shame that the years before this were largely a waste of his talent.

[Beeston Brawler]

Failey....

Lacy a better win than Dawson?

Not sure if serious....

[Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Laikaka

Given the time and effort you spend on this don't you think you'd be better served by looking for some balance to your posts. Look at how you refer to Bika in your comparison of him as a Ward opponent and then as Calzaghe's opponent. To you it's a big issue that Dawson returned to SMW but not for Eubank to do so to fight Calzaghe (as a sub.) Brewer's win over Herol Graham four years prior to facing Calzaghe is seen as relevant but Omar Sheika's loss to Tony Booth two years before his fight with Calzaghe isn't.


You've previously shown on another thread that you pick to either choose or ignore facts whenever it suits your argument.


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


In what parallel world did you get your Ring ratings from?


And did you really think your quotes "a lot of fighters joe calzaghe fought had a minimum of 20 wins with 1 lost" or "...and joe calzaghe has beat people that beat people that beat...graciano rocchigiani, james toney, Kelly Pavlik, Dariusz Michalczewski etc etc. cuts it? That is absolutely desparate man.

What you are advocating for the worthiness of an opponent at world title level is why boxing is in the state it is. He was supposed to be a world champion but you suggest Calzaghe's were worthy because of their record, because once upon a time they either held or fought for an alphabet belt or one day would go on to do that. What do you make of David Price's last two opponents then (both former world title challengers)? Thankfully you stopped short of mentioning a boxer's nationality and the stereotypes sometimes associated with it as another defence of Calzaghe's choice of challenger.

I'm sorry but a title reign of eight and a half years without a unification fight in a multi-title world is very, very poor form. Particularly when that title was such a weak one (WBO.) And how many other alphabet titlists were there during that time? And not a single one of them would entertain the idea of fighting Calzaghe. Really?


Thing is, I liked Joe at the end of his career because he (or his management) finally sought out proper challenges and I rated him. He showed in his last few years how adaptable he was and you felt that somehow he could always find a way to win...a rare thing. Such a shame that the years before this were largely a waste of his talent.

Just total domination.

[knockout artist]

Originally Posted by Beeston Brawler

Failey....

Lacy a better win than Dawson?

Not sure if serious....

At 168? I'd say so. Did you see the state Dawson showed up to that fight in?

[Jasper Simone]

Originally Posted by bailey

Before Lacy and Kessler, he beat Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Brewer, Veit, Mitchell who had all held a SMW title at some point

I know who he beat and that was precisely my point. Each to their own but his record never did impress me.

[achillesthegreat]

Originally Posted by Slothrop

He would've had his ass handed to him.

We will never truly know. A more aggressive Hopkins, an inconsistent Hopkins and a RJJ waiting to be found out. None of them are as one sided as some would have you believe.

[BlackBrenny]

Originally Posted by Beeston Brawler

Failey....

Lacy a better win than Dawson?

Not sure if serious....

As has already been said, at 168? YES, Lacy was a champion at least

You know, certain well-versed members of this forum once said Kelly Pavlik would always beat Joe, because of the style advantage...

Then Joe beats a "past it" Hopkins. who goes on and gives Kelly Pavlik a well over-due boxing lesson, poor Kelly.

What happened to Pavlik beating Joe 9/10?

needless to say those statements were withdrawn sharpish

[ashishwarrior]

looks like cleverly will take the same road

[Beeston Brawler]

Originally Posted by BlackBrenny

As has already been said, at 168? YES, Lacy was a champion at least

You know, certain well-versed members of this forum once said Kelly Pavlik would always beat Joe, because of the style advantage...

Then Joe beats a "past it" Hopkins. who goes on and gives Kelly Pavlik a well over-due boxing lesson, poor Kelly.

What happened to Pavlik beating Joe 9/10?

needless to say those statements were withdrawn sharpish

I'm not bothered that Lacy held a title, even though I think Dawson is very overrated (always has been) - and the weight issue.... I still think he's a better fighter than Lacy was.

Nobody in their right minds picked Pavlik to beat Calzaghe.... it was just a shame that Calzaghe fancied the fight with Jones instead for the payday, then proceeded to give Roy a 50% split

[UndisputedUK]

Yep he wasted it on the WBO, IBF, WBA, WBC and Ring belts he won at Super-Middleweight and the Ring belt he won at Light-Heavyweight.
He got out of the sport with lots of money, lots of titles and undefeated.
What more could you want?

To have beaten Steve Collins for the proper title? To have fought Ottke? To have fought Nigel Benn? To come out of retirement at 40 to fight Andre Ward and Carl Froch?

[iceferg]

Originally Posted by Furey

Near his peak?

It was calzaghe's second from last fight and he was what, 37 years old?

I meant near Hopkins peak.

[iceferg]

Originally Posted by UndisputedUK

Yep he wasted it on the WBO, IBF, WBA, WBC and Ring belts he won at Super-Middleweight and the Ring belt he won at Light-Heavyweight.
He got out of the sport with lots of money, lots of titles and undefeated.
What more could you want?

To have beaten Steve Collins for the proper title? To have fought Ottke? To have fought Nigel Benn? To come out of retirement at 40 to fight Andre Ward and Carl Froch?

Exactly mate, he got out of the sport at the right time and achieved more than anyone else did in his generation.

If he was still fighting now he probably would have lost imo, not because he isn't a great fighter but because he was past his peak. He kept on top til 37 ffs, what more do you want.