Your top 10 Eastern European HW'S...

[BadDog]

Originally Posted by Vysotsky

Accomplishment

1. Vova
2. Vitali
3. Chagaev
4. Povetkin
5. Maskaev
6. Ibragimov
7. Golota (if the Ruiz, Byrd, and Bowe wins counted he would be #3)
8. Valuev
9. Lyakhovich
10. Zolkin

Zolkin edges Adamek because Tubbs, Hunter, Cooper, Williams > Arreola, Golota, Grant, Walker

H2H ability prime

1. Vitali
2. Vova
3. Golota
4. Chagaev
5. Ibragimov
6. Povetkin
7. Lyakhovich
8. Zolkin
9. Maskaev
10. Valuev

Golota number 3 head to head? based on what? he lost every time he stepped up and got KOed in the first or quit many times. Even Grant beat him, the same Grant who got KOed by Mccline in 1.

[BadDog]

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitaly Klitschko
3. Valuev
4. Ibragimov
5. Chagaev
6. Povetkin
7. Adamek
8. Lyakhovich
9. Maskaev
10. Golota

[Faerun]

Originally Posted by BadDog

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitaly Klitschko
3. Valuev
4. Ibragimov
5. Chagaev
6. Povetkin
7. Adamek
8. Lyakhovich
9. Maskaev
10. Golota

What a shit list

Chagaev beat Valuev yet you rank SNV ahead? What is Valuev's best win? Povetkin smokes both resumes and is yet #6?

[DREAMCATCHER]

Sergey Kobozev needs a mention although he was a CW he handed John ruiz his first loss. Sadly killed young in dodgy circumstances.

[DREAMCATCHER]

Originally Posted by Vysotsky

Accomplishment

1. Vova
2. Vitali
3. Chagaev
4. Povetkin
5. Maskaev
6. Ibragimov
7. Golota (if the Ruiz, Byrd, and Bowe wins counted he would be #3)
8. Valuev
9. Lyakhovich
10. Zolkin

Zolkin edges Adamek because Tubbs, Hunter, Cooper, Williams > Arreola, Golota, Grant, Walker

H2H ability prime

1. Vitali
2. Vova
3. Golota
4. Chagaev
5. Ibragimov
6. Povetkin
7. Lyakhovich
8. Zolkin
9. Maskaev
10. Valuev

Good reply. Although i disagree with Golota being H2H #3.

Valuev would not make my top 10.

[Vysotsky]

Originally Posted by BadDog

Golota number 3 head to head? based on what? he lost every time he stepped up and got KOed in the first or quit many times. Even Grant beat him, the same Grant who got KOed by Mccline in 1.

While i do think your classification of him is an exaggeraton it did cause me to re-examine my placement of him and i realized an error in my analysis of him. When i think of Golota in a 'what if' scenario i typically combine his physical prime 95-99 with the mental stability he had in his later career (Byrd, Ruiz, Mollo) but the reality is the two never really coexisted at the same time, it's fantasy rather than his actual prime.

I suppose it would look something like this with Povetkin through to Zolkin all being win or lose fights for Golota. I actually think Zolkin may be more likely to win against Golota than Povetkin.

1. Vitali
2. Vova
3. Chagaev
4. Ibragimov
5. Povetkin
6. Golota
7. Lyakhovich
8. Zolkin
9. Maskaev
10. Valuev

Originally Posted by DREAMCATCHER

Good reply. Although i disagree with Golota being H2H #3.

Valuev would not make my top 10.

Who would you place instead, Adamek? I actually think Vyrchys would be a tough fight for most on that list although he didnt do enough as a pro to validate my opinion with proof. He did give Chagaev a good fight, granted they were stablemates and friends with neither giving their most bloodthirsty performance.

[DREAMCATCHER]

Originally Posted by Vysotsky

Who would you place instead, Adamek? I actually think Vyrchys would be a tough fight for most on that list although he didnt do enough as a pro to validate my opinion with proof. He did give Chagaev a good fight, granted they were stablemates and friends with neither giving their most bloodthirsty performance.

My list is still a work in progress il post it when i have decided. As for Golota, on talent alone he's top 5 but H2H its hard to place him top 5!

Chin, Durability and Mentality all come into play when assessing a fighters H2H pedigree not just ability! Problem with Golota was he is questionable in those 3 departments!

He didn't even try vs Tyson. Got off his stool in round 2 and began to walk around his corner refusing to fight another round citing Tysons headbutts as the reason! Subsequent events did however reveal that (as comical as it sounds!) he had a broken bone in his head, which could have pierced his brain, should the fight have continued!

Against lewis he had apparently been injected with lidocaine, a powerful painkiller, before the bout in an attempt to stave off knee pain and after the bout, Golota had a seizure and required resuscitation on the way to the hospital!

His career is just bizarre! I don't think he was balanced right mentally! Why on earth would you throw 2 fights you were clearly winning with Bowe? He had the chance to become Linear champ and smacked him in the nuts instead! Wtf! He also threw the fight with Grant too! Grant was down twice in first round and before Golota quit in the 10th he was way ahead on all the scorecards! Again wtf?

Byrd, Ruiz, Grant and Bowe should all be a W on his record but there not and we can't change that unfortunately! The ruiz fight was shameful! Put Ruiz down twice, clearly outboxed him and yet still lost!

Bizarre career.

[unitas]

Originally Posted by damian38

1. Wlad
2. Vitali
3. Ibragimov
4. Golota
5. Povetkin
6. Valuev
7. Adamek
8. Liakhovic
9. Chagaev
10. Vyrches

good list. pretty much agree. but lets face it: after 10 years of high expectations about eastern european talent adding to the heavyweight picture......this is a sad sad result.

[damian38]

Originally Posted by unitas

good list. pretty much agree. but lets face it: after 10 years of high expectations about eastern european talent adding to the heavyweight picture......this is a sad sad result.

for the last 8 years, 2 Eastern Euro guys have dominated the division and there's also the new batch of Eastern European HW's coming around

Abdusalamov, Pulev, Szpilka, Glazkov are just the first names that come to mind

[BadDog]

Originally Posted by Faerun

What a shit list

Chagaev beat Valuev yet you rank SNV ahead? What is Valuev's best win? Povetkin smokes both resumes and is yet #6?

Valuev went 48 fights without a loss, was WBA champ and was never knocked down. Maybe he shouldn't be at number 3, but at least top 5 for now.

[unitas]

Originally Posted by damian38

for the last 8 years, 2 Eastern Euro guys have dominated the division and there's also the new batch of Eastern European HW's coming around

Abdusalamov, Pulev, Szpilka, Glazkov are just the first names that come to mind

.

exactly. and they have produced some of the most boring/forgettable heavyweight fights of all time.

remember tyson vs holyfield? or bowe vs holyfield?

here is the problem: take the klitschkos out of the equasion. lets look at all the other fighters that came after the klitschkos.........those are the ones im referring to.

look at all prospects (past and presen,t): vladimir virchis, taras bidenko, ruslan chagaev, alexander povetkin,, white wolf lyhakovich, sultan ibragimov, kubrat pulev, sasha dimitrenko and so on.....what do they all have in common??
answer: 2 things.

number one: all have/had talent. not one "bum" (i.e. someone like tye fields) in that group. everyone could produce some pretty solid boxing.
so that was not the problem.

number two: they have as much charisma as an empty bottle of milk.

in other words: they all come across as fuckin boring! i mean whats with that russian "look" that povetkin has? he´s got the haircut of a twelve year old.

and watching their interviews is as exciting as watching paint dry.

sure, its all superficial. but this is professional boxing. its not just about being a good boxer. you gotta sell the product.

and you can do that in one of two ways: either you make for some real barnburner fights.
or you at least have to get people (the general public) interested.

so far they have not done either.

and looking at those "new guys on the block" like glazkov, pulev etc, thing aint getting any better.
they are more likely to get worse.

[damian38]

Originally Posted by unitas

.

exactly. and they have produced some of the most boring/forgettable heavyweight fights of all time.

remember tyson vs holyfield? or bowe vs holyfield?

here is the problem: take the klitschkos out of the equasion. lets look at all the other fighters that came after the klitschkos.........those are the ones im referring to.

look at all prospects (past and presen,t): vladimir virchis, taras bidenko, ruslan chagaev, alexander povetkin,, white wolf lyhakovich, sultan ibragimov, kubrat pulev, sasha dimitrenko and so on.....what do they all have in common??
answer: 2 things.

number one: all have/had talent. not one "bum" (i.e. someone like tye fields) in that group. everyone could produce some pretty solid boxing.
so that was not the problem.

number two: they have as much charisma as an empty bottle of milk.

in other words: they all come across as fuckin boring! i mean whats with that russian "look" that povetkin has? he´s got the haircut of a twelve year old.

and watching their interviews is as exciting as watching paint dry.

sure, its all superficial. but this is professional boxing. its not just about being a good boxer. you gotta sell the product.

and you can do that in one of two ways: either you make for some real barnburner fights.
or you at least have to get people (the general public) interested.

so far they have not done either.

and looking at those "new guys on the block" like glazkov, pulev etc, thing aint getting any better.
they are more likely to get worse.

the 90's will never be back, multi-million dolar fights like Lewis-Tyson or Lewis-Holy are history

not much excitement? Povetkin-Huck was a great slugfest to say the least

[Vysotsky]

Originally Posted by unitas

.

exactly. and they have produced some of the most boring/forgettable heavyweight fights of all time.

remember tyson vs holyfield? or bowe vs holyfield?

here is the problem: take the klitschkos out of the equasion. lets look at all the other fighters that came after the klitschkos.........those are the ones im referring to.

look at all prospects (past and presen,t): vladimir virchis, taras bidenko, ruslan chagaev, alexander povetkin,, white wolf lyhakovich, sultan ibragimov, kubrat pulev, sasha dimitrenko and so on.....what do they all have in common??
answer: 2 things.

number one: all have/had talent. not one "bum" (i.e. someone like tye fields) in that group. everyone could produce some pretty solid boxing.
so that was not the problem.

number two: they have as much charisma as an empty bottle of milk.

in other words: they all come across as fuckin boring! i mean whats with that russian "look" that povetkin has? he´s got the haircut of a twelve year old.

and watching their interviews is as exciting as watching paint dry.

sure, its all superficial. but this is professional boxing. its not just about being a good boxer. you gotta sell the product.

and you can do that in one of two ways: either you make for some real barnburner fights.
or you at least have to get people (the general public) interested.

so far they have not done either.

and looking at those "new guys on the block" like glazkov, pulev etc, thing aint getting any better.
they are more likely to get worse.

Go watch some rap videos and hulk hogan since thats clearly what you're looking for. You're complaining about boxers haircuts ffs

[BadDog]

Originally Posted by unitas

.

exactly. and they have produced some of the most boring/forgettable heavyweight fights of all time.

remember tyson vs holyfield? or bowe vs holyfield?

here is the problem: take the klitschkos out of the equasion. lets look at all the other fighters that came after the klitschkos.........those are the ones im referring to.

look at all prospects (past and presen,t): vladimir virchis, taras bidenko, ruslan chagaev, alexander povetkin,, white wolf lyhakovich, sultan ibragimov, kubrat pulev, sasha dimitrenko and so on.....what do they all have in common??
answer: 2 things.

number one: all have/had talent. not one "bum" (i.e. someone like tye fields) in that group. everyone could produce some pretty solid boxing.
so that was not the problem.

number two: they have as much charisma as an empty bottle of milk.

in other words: they all come across as fuckin boring! i mean whats with that russian "look" that povetkin has? he´s got the haircut of a twelve year old.

and watching their interviews is as exciting as watching paint dry.

sure, its all superficial. but this is professional boxing. its not just about being a good boxer. you gotta sell the product.

and you can do that in one of two ways: either you make for some real barnburner fights.
or you at least have to get people (the general public) interested.

so far they have not done either.

and looking at those "new guys on the block" like glazkov, pulev etc, thing aint getting any better.
they are more likely to get worse.

that's what I used to watch when I was 12

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKLuZ6OD_aw[/ame]

[DREAMCATCHER]

Originally Posted by unitas

exactly. and they have produced some of the most boring/forgettable heavyweight fights of all time.

U are talking shit mate. Try:

Lamon Brewster vs Luan Krasniqi/Sergei Liakhovich

Andrew Golota vs Chris Byrd/Riddick Bowe

Oleg Maskaev vs Hasim Rahman 1 & 2

Vitali Klitschko vs Lennox Lewis/Corrie sanders

Povetkin vs Huck/Chambers/Chagaev

remember tyson vs holyfield? or bowe vs holyfield?

Yes and i remember Golota v Bowe too!

number two: they have as much charisma as an empty bottle of milk.

Language and cultural barrier. They are not here to please you! Personal magnetism or charm is something i never found in Tyson or Bowe!

in other words: they all come across as fuckin boring! i mean whats with that russian "look" that povetkin has? he´s got the haircut of a twelve year old.

Now Haircuts are relevant too!

and watching their interviews is as exciting as watching paint dry.

Well u obviously watched them then!

sure, its all superficial. but this is professional boxing. its not just about being a good boxer. you gotta sell the product.

To who? K2 fill out stadiums.

and looking at those "new guys on the block" like glazkov, pulev etc, thing aint getting any better.
they are more likely to get worse

Worse for your fighters yes.