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Old 12-07-2012, 05:49 PM   #16
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

My observation would be that Greb's dark streak was mainly hyperbole, while Ketchel's stands up to the most rigourous scrutiny.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

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Can I get some Papke stories as well
He basically let Walter Stanton kick the shit out of him for the first round of their 1908 contest for a bit of fun. Then, when he started actually fighting (having been battered all around the ring, punches he absorbed with "contemptuous ease") he took his man out with ease.

Previous to Ketchel II, he would scratch this crude, weird likeness onto the various different punching bags he had scattered around the training camp and then talk to "Ketch" as he beat him up.

He laughed and joked with ringside pressmen about the misery he was about to inflict upon Sailor Burke prior to his August '08 contest and followed up to the word.

Then, on Thanksgiving, 1936, he slaughtered his wife and shot himself in the heart. Took three bullets to stop it.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

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Billy Papke shaking hands with Greb while Red Mason looks on.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

Greb and Tom Sharkey

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Old 12-07-2012, 09:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

Thats crazy, look how much taller middleweight Greb is than heavyweight Sharkey.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

Anyone interested in learning more about Ketchel should steer clear of Brutality: the Tragic Story of Ketchel (I think that's the title). Its dreadful, poorly written, and composed in a reverential, worshipful love of its subject. That's the only book I'm had a chance to crack open on Ketchel and it was disapointing, especially because the story has such potential.

A few more thoughts on Stanley:

It was very interesting as annecdotes surfaced about Edwin Valero after Valero's suicide because so many details in Valero's mental and psychological deterioration mirrored stories about Ketchel.

Stanley was famously tempermental. He was know to shot holes through doors whenever someone was foolish enough to wake him up when he was sleeping. His foul moods were also highly unpredictable. I heard he would abruptly fly off the handle for for trivial reasons, i.e. people talking while has training or for no reason at all. He would often cruelly beat his own friends for imagined provocations.

I heard someone speculate that Ketchel heard voices. It's not out of the question, given the fact that he was obviously mentally ill, but there's no evidence to corroborate this.

And obviously Ketchel's fondness for bedding other men's wives is well documented, given the fact that it cost him his life. One story details that Ketchel walked all the way from Grand Rapids to what is now Jenison, a suberb of Grand Rapids during the dead of winter to visit one of his married lovers. This story won't have much signficance to people outside the region, but Jenison would have been an insane trek to make on foot, considering its crisscrossed by rivers and thick forrests. And west michigan is ****ing frigid during the winter. Don't know if its true, but if it is, the guy was willing to walk further and harder to nail a married woman and risk getting shot than I would be.

As I mentioned, Grand Rapids definitely isn't proud of Ketchel the way it is with Gerald Ford, Anthony Keidis, or Mayweather. He's never listed among its list of famous residents. And given his ***ual deviation, temper, and passion for opium, its not surprising.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

Stan had a dark passenger
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:39 PM   #23
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

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Thats crazy, look how much taller middleweight Greb is than heavyweight Sharkey.
Sharkey is leaning though, while Greb is standing straight up. There really wasn't much of a difference in their height
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:06 AM   #24
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

Are you kidding? Leaning? He's a good two or three inches shorter. He could stand straight up and put on cowboy boots and he'd still be shorter.
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:23 AM   #25
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

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Billy Papke shaking hands with Greb while Red Mason looks on.
Great pic.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:16 AM   #26
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

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Billy Papke shaking hands with Greb while Red Mason looks on.
Awesome pic, Surf...
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:50 AM   #27
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

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Are you kidding? Leaning? He's a good two or three inches shorter. He could stand straight up and put on cowboy boots and he'd still be shorter.
NO, his lean and positioning makes him look shorter than he actually is there!
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:36 PM   #28
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

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NO, his lean and positioning makes him look shorter than he actually is there!
Exactly. He's leaning away. Greb is slightly closer to the camera. Greb was 5'8. Sharkey's lean makes him about 5'6 in that picture. Definitely NOT his true height as this picture with the 6'0 Jack Sharkey clearly illustrates:

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Old 12-08-2012, 08:47 PM   #29
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

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Originally Posted by The Funny Man 7 View Post
Anyone interested in learning more about Ketchel should steer clear of Brutality: the Tragic Story of Ketchel (I think that's the title). Its dreadful, poorly written, and composed in a reverential, worshipful love of its subject. That's the only book I'm had a chance to crack open on Ketchel and it was disapointing, especially because the story has such potential.

A few more thoughts on Stanley:

It was very interesting as annecdotes surfaced about Edwin Valero after Valero's suicide because so many details in Valero's mental and psychological deterioration mirrored stories about Ketchel.

Stanley was famously tempermental. He was know to shot holes through doors whenever someone was foolish enough to wake him up when he was sleeping. His foul moods were also highly unpredictable. I heard he would abruptly fly off the handle for for trivial reasons, i.e. people talking while has training or for no reason at all. He would often cruelly beat his own friends for imagined provocations.

I heard someone speculate that Ketchel heard voices. It's not out of the question, given the fact that he was obviously mentally ill, but there's no evidence to corroborate this.

And obviously Ketchel's fondness for bedding other men's wives is well documented, given the fact that it cost him his life. One story details that Ketchel walked all the way from Grand Rapids to what is now Jenison, a suberb of Grand Rapids during the dead of winter to visit one of his married lovers. This story won't have much signficance to people outside the region, but Jenison would have been an insane trek to make on foot, considering its crisscrossed by rivers and thick forrests. And west michigan is ****ing frigid during the winter. Don't know if its true, but if it is, the guy was willing to walk further and harder to nail a married woman and risk getting shot than I would be.

As I mentioned, Grand Rapids definitely isn't proud of Ketchel the way it is with Gerald Ford, Anthony Keidis, or Mayweather. He's never listed among its list of famous residents. And given his ***ual deviation, temper, and passion for opium, its not surprising.
Ketchel sounds like boxings answer to Gyp Rosetti.

A very bad man indeed.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:17 PM   #30
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Default Re: Did Greb have as much of a dark streak like Ketchel?

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Originally Posted by The Funny Man 7 View Post
Anyone interested in learning more about Ketchel should steer clear of Brutality: the Tragic Story of Ketchel (I think that's the title). Its dreadful, poorly written, and composed in a reverential, worshipful love of its subject. That's the only book I'm had a chance to crack open on Ketchel and it was disapointing, especially because the story has such potential.

A few more thoughts on Stanley:

It was very interesting as annecdotes surfaced about Edwin Valero after Valero's suicide because so many details in Valero's mental and psychological deterioration mirrored stories about Ketchel.

Stanley was famously tempermental. He was know to shot holes through doors whenever someone was foolish enough to wake him up when he was sleeping. His foul moods were also highly unpredictable. I heard he would abruptly fly off the handle for for trivial reasons, i.e. people talking while has training or for no reason at all. He would often cruelly beat his own friends for imagined provocations.

I heard someone speculate that Ketchel heard voices. It's not out of the question, given the fact that he was obviously mentally ill, but there's no evidence to corroborate this.

And obviously Ketchel's fondness for bedding other men's wives is well documented, given the fact that it cost him his life. One story details that Ketchel walked all the way from Grand Rapids to what is now Jenison, a suberb of Grand Rapids during the dead of winter to visit one of his married lovers. This story won't have much signficance to people outside the region, but Jenison would have been an insane trek to make on foot, considering its crisscrossed by rivers and thick forrests. And west michigan is ****ing frigid during the winter. Don't know if its true, but if it is, the guy was willing to walk further and harder to nail a married woman and risk getting shot than I would be.

As I mentioned, Grand Rapids definitely isn't proud of Ketchel the way it is with Gerald Ford, Anthony Keidis, or Mayweather. He's never listed among its list of famous residents. And given his ***ual deviation, temper, and passion for opium, its not surprising.
Iv read accounts that questioned whether the guy who shot Ketchel was even the girls boyfriend speculating that he was just jealous he couldnt get the ***** and Ketchel did. He shot him in the back too didnt he, seems like a spineless cowards m.o.
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