Is Date Of Jeffries v Griffin Fight Kosher?

mcvey · 12-07-2012, 03:06 PM

Jim Jeffries is listed as koing Hank Griffin on the 1st of Dec 1896.
Jeffries was due to fight Van Buskirk in August of that year, but contracted pneumonia which nearly killed him, the fight was postponed indefinitely, and Jeffries sparring partner Jack Stelzner was drafted in as a replacement , the fight taking place in Jan of 1897, result a draw.

My point is, if the date is correct, Jeffries beat Griffin only 4 months after being at death's door , bringing up blood.
If so ,this is a highly commendable result.
Perhaps Adam Pollack knows the truth of it?
Link below.

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apollack · 12-07-2012, 04:31 PM

I think the date is incorrect. Jeff most likely fought Griffin between 1893 and 1895.

mcvey · 12-07-2012, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apollack

I think the date is incorrect. Jeff most likely fought Griffin between 1893 and 1895.

Jeffries stated that he first fought Griffin in 1891 ,when he was 16.
I was just interested in verifying the date of their second fight because ,if it's correct, given his battle with pneumonia ,this would be a tremendous result for him ,imo.

edward morbius · 12-07-2012, 07:38 PM

Well, modern medical care is one obvious cause of why modern heavyweights are so much larger on the whole. We get antibiotics when we have an infection. Jeffries had to just tough it out.

apollack · 12-08-2012, 01:01 AM

They only fought to a decision/finish once. Jeff gave varying ages as to when they fought. I talk about it in In the Ring With James J. Jeffries. Their second bout was an exhibition, which took place September 17, 1901.

You aren't going to find any primary sources confirming that December date, or I'll eat crow. I'm pretty darn confident Jeff did not fight Griffin any later than 1895.

Jeff was supposed to fight Van Buskirk in 1896, after his July victory over Dan Long, but came down with pnemonia. After recovering, an attempt was made to re-schedule the Van Buskirk bout, but the promoters refused to pay the fighters' purse demands. Jeff was next scheduled to fight Jack Stelzner in February 1897, but Stelzner pulled out, claiming a back injury. Then Jeff became a Corbett sparring partner.

Boilermaker · 12-08-2012, 01:44 AM

This thread has quite a few small and interesting articles i found regarding some of Jeffries early career, some of which might be of interest to some people.

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Boilermaker · 12-08-2012, 01:57 AM

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Here is a Jim Jeffries-Billy Gallager exhibition fight advertised. in November 1894. If we accept that Griffin was Jeffries official debut, it seems to indicate that the first Griffin Jeffries fight was sometime before this date doesnt it?

I think that early 1893 is the most likely time.

Boilermaker · 12-08-2012, 02:07 AM

This is as good a place as anywhere to put a report of jeffries second round stoppage victory over Hank Lorraine from October 1895.

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mcvey · 12-08-2012, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apollack

They only fought to a decision/finish once. Jeff gave varying ages as to when they fought. I talk about it in In the Ring With James J. Jeffries. Their second bout was an exhibition, which took place September 17, 1901.

You aren't going to find any primary sources confirming that December date, or I'll eat crow. I'm pretty darn confident Jeff did not fight Griffin any later than 1895.

Jeff was supposed to fight Van Buskirk in 1896, after his July victory over Dan Long, but came down with pnemonia. After recovering, an attempt was made to re-schedule the Van Buskirk bout, but the promoters refused to pay the fighters' purse demands. Jeff was next scheduled to fight Jack Stelzner in February 1897, but Stelzner pulled out, claiming a back injury. Then Jeff became a Corbett sparring partner.

Well knowing your reputation for exhaustive and diligent research,I'm happy to defer to you.
Would you say then, that the following article is just an example of an older fighter getting the dates of his career fights mixed up?

He twice mentions that he was 16 when he fought Griffin the first time ,that was what originally aroused my interest..

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mcvey · 12-08-2012, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilermaker

This is as good a place as anywhere to put a report of jeffries second round stoppage victory over Hank Lorraine from October 1895.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Good info B. By the way, the Billy Gallagher mentioned in this link was the coach at the L A A.C.where the bout was held and, Jeffries first mentor.
Jeffries mentions in the link I provided that he had several "smokers" at the club.

apollack · 12-08-2012, 10:01 AM

By 1936, Jeff isn't going to have the best memory of when he had what fight. Most likely, Jeff was at least 17 or 18 when the Griffin fight happened, which would have been about 1893. I think it was most likely 1893 or 1894, with an outside chance of early 1895.

In his first autobiography, My Life and Battles, written in 1910, Jeff said that he was 17 years old at the time, which would have been about 1892-1893. In the much later Two Fisted Jeff (written in 1929), Jeffries said that he was about 19 years old, which would have been 1894-1895. He has also said that he did not fight professionally again until a couple years later, in 1896, when he was 21.
An 1898 San Francisco Chronicle reproduction of Jeffries’ record lists an 1893 bout against Hank Griffin in Los Angeles as a 15-round knockout victory for Jeffries. That was the earliest listing of the fight.

It is clear that in 1894, Jeff was training and sparring with Gallagher. Whether Jeff had boxing experience of some sort before the Griffin fight or only after is debatable. Jeff at varying times said he had no training or knowledge, but I suspect he at least had some boxing sparring experience at the Los Angeles Athletic Club before the Griffin bout.

BTW, great catch Boilermaker re that 1894 scheduled sparring exhibition with Gallagher. That makes perfect sense and is consistent with what I have found re Jeff claiming he sparred and trained with Gallagher, who thought highly of him and wanted him to turn pro and continue fighting pro. Jeff said after the Griffin bout, his mother insisted that he not fight pro again, and could not do so until he was of technical age, which was 21 back then. Hence Jeff fully embarking on his pro career in 1896.

12-07-2012, 03:06 PM	#1
mcvey P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 17,716 vCash: 1000	Is Date Of Jeffries v Griffin Fight Kosher? Jim Jeffries is listed as koing Hank Griffin on the 1st of Dec 1896. Jeffries was due to fight Van Buskirk in August of that year, but contracted pneumonia which nearly killed him, the fight was postponed indefinitely, and Jeffries sparring partner Jack Stelzner was drafted in as a replacement , the fight taking place in Jan of 1897, result a draw. My point is, if the date is correct, Jeffries beat Griffin only 4 months after being at death's door , bringing up blood. If so ,this is a highly commendable result. Perhaps Adam Pollack knows the truth of it? Link below. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]#
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12-07-2012, 04:31 PM	#2
apollack Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,402 vCash: 1000	Re: Is Date Of Jeffries v Griffin Fight Kosher? I think the date is incorrect. Jeff most likely fought Griffin between 1893 and 1895.
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12-07-2012, 07:38 PM	#4
edward morbius Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,024 vCash: 500	Re: Is Date Of Jeffries v Griffin Fight Kosher? Well, modern medical care is one obvious cause of why modern heavyweights are so much larger on the whole. We get antibiotics when we have an infection. Jeffries had to just tough it out.
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12-08-2012, 01:01 AM	#5
apollack Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,402 vCash: 1000	Re: Is Date Of Jeffries v Griffin Fight Kosher? They only fought to a decision/finish once. Jeff gave varying ages as to when they fought. I talk about it in In the Ring With James J. Jeffries. Their second bout was an exhibition, which took place September 17, 1901. You aren't going to find any primary sources confirming that December date, or I'll eat crow. I'm pretty darn confident Jeff did not fight Griffin any later than 1895. Jeff was supposed to fight Van Buskirk in 1896, after his July victory over Dan Long, but came down with pnemonia. After recovering, an attempt was made to re-schedule the Van Buskirk bout, but the promoters refused to pay the fighters' purse demands. Jeff was next scheduled to fight Jack Stelzner in February 1897, but Stelzner pulled out, claiming a back injury. Then Jeff became a Corbett sparring partner.
Top

12-08-2012, 01:44 AM	#6
Boilermaker Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 3,772 vCash: 685	Re: Is Date Of Jeffries v Griffin Fight Kosher? This thread has quite a few small and interesting articles i found regarding some of Jeffries early career, some of which might be of interest to some people. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Top

12-08-2012, 01:57 AM	#7
Boilermaker Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 3,772 vCash: 685	Re: Is Date Of Jeffries v Griffin Fight Kosher? [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Here is a Jim Jeffries-Billy Gallager exhibition fight advertised. in November 1894. If we accept that Griffin was Jeffries official debut, it seems to indicate that the first Griffin Jeffries fight was sometime before this date doesnt it? I think that early 1893 is the most likely time.
Top

12-08-2012, 02:07 AM	#8
Boilermaker Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 3,772 vCash: 685	Re: Is Date Of Jeffries v Griffin Fight Kosher? This is as good a place as anywhere to put a report of jeffries second round stoppage victory over Hank Lorraine from October 1895. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Top

12-08-2012, 10:01 AM	#11
apollack Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,402 vCash: 1000	Re: Is Date Of Jeffries v Griffin Fight Kosher? By 1936, Jeff isn't going to have the best memory of when he had what fight. Most likely, Jeff was at least 17 or 18 when the Griffin fight happened, which would have been about 1893. I think it was most likely 1893 or 1894, with an outside chance of early 1895. In his first autobiography, My Life and Battles, written in 1910, Jeff said that he was 17 years old at the time, which would have been about 1892-1893. In the much later Two Fisted Jeff (written in 1929), Jeffries said that he was about 19 years old, which would have been 1894-1895. He has also said that he did not fight professionally again until a couple years later, in 1896, when he was 21. An 1898 San Francisco Chronicle reproduction of Jeffries’ record lists an 1893 bout against Hank Griffin in Los Angeles as a 15-round knockout victory for Jeffries. That was the earliest listing of the fight. It is clear that in 1894, Jeff was training and sparring with Gallagher. Whether Jeff had boxing experience of some sort before the Griffin fight or only after is debatable. Jeff at varying times said he had no training or knowledge, but I suspect he at least had some boxing sparring experience at the Los Angeles Athletic Club before the Griffin bout. BTW, great catch Boilermaker re that 1894 scheduled sparring exhibition with Gallagher. That makes perfect sense and is consistent with what I have found re Jeff claiming he sparred and trained with Gallagher, who thought highly of him and wanted him to turn pro and continue fighting pro. Jeff said after the Griffin bout, his mother insisted that he not fight pro again, and could not do so until he was of technical age, which was 21 back then. Hence Jeff fully embarking on his pro career in 1896.
Top