Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano - Page 20

lufcrazy · 12-09-2012, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

Fighting primarily European crap hwts in the worst era of hwt talent in my lifetime.

it takes a great to dominate a division like he has done.

dinovelvet · 12-09-2012, 10:36 AM

He came back to fight old, washed up nobody's. It just doesn't register does it.

HOUDINI · 12-09-2012, 10:37 AM

Does not demonstrate all time great skills. Being able to take a punch, toughness, and the courage not to give up when really hurt are marls of a great champion. He is not tough and looks to the exits when hurt.

lufcrazy · 12-09-2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

Does not demonstrate all time great skills. Being able to take a punch, toughness, and the courage not to give up when really hurt are marls of a great champion. He is not tough and looks to the exits when hurt.

From the Peter fight we can say this is clearly not true. He got thrice dropped and came back to be on the verges of dropping Peter in the last round.

Since then there's not been a punch that's really bothered him so you're using data from 7 years ago.

It would be like analysing rocky going into his final fight by using data from before he turned pro.

HOUDINI · 12-09-2012, 10:49 AM

No. Watch how badly he was koed those three times. All time greats don't show those characteristics. Down in sections, stumbling all over the ring, obviously not wanting to fight anymore. Being spoke of in the same vein as Ali, Louis and Marciano cannot be easy to attain...the fighter has to show all time great skills and physical and mental fortitude. Only select few are given all time great status and Wlad with those three losses does not justify to be spoke of at that high a level. Really hurt him and he wants to quit.

dyna · 12-09-2012, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

No. Watch how badly he was koed those three times. All time greats don't show those characteristics. Down in sections, stumbling all over the ring, obviously not wanting to fight anymore. Being spoke of in the same vein as Ali, Louis and Marciano cannot be easy to attain...the fighter has to show all time great skills and physical and mental fortitude. Only select few are given all time great status and Wlad with those three losses does not justify to be spoke of at that high a level. Really hurt him and he wants to quit.

Imagine if Wlad would got knocked down by a 190lbs past lhw, you would shout "lame, modern heavyweights can't take punches like Marciano anymore"

lufcrazy · 12-09-2012, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

No. Watch how badly he was koed those three times. All time greats don't show those characteristics. Down in sections, stumbling all over the ring, obviously not wanting to fight anymore. Being spoke of in the same vein as Ali, Louis and Marciano cannot be easy to attain...the fighter has to show all time great skills and physical and mental fortitude. Only select few are given all time great status and Wlad with those three losses does not justify to be spoke of at that high a level. Really hurt him and he wants to quit.

Well Peter really hurt him and he responded valiantly in that fight.

For me greatness is more than what you look like as a fighter on your worst night.

For me it's about what you achieve, who you beat and how I see a fighter matching up with his peers.

Rocky is the best below 200 pounds but pitting him against an atg outweighing him by 50+ pounds is folly.

Haglet was a great mw but I wouldn't try pitting him against someone like Patterson.

dinovelvet · 12-09-2012, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orriray59

This thread is full of idiots.

The lowest common denominator.

dinovelvet · 12-09-2012, 11:03 AM

Is there a whole new level of titles in this "SHW division"

HOUDINI · 12-09-2012, 11:06 AM

Marciano exhibited all time great abilities and physical/mental toughness. Wlad when he gets clocked wants to go home. No fighter with that low a level of toughness cannot be rated as an all time great fighter. Its a total dis service to all those who did have all time great abilities to list Wlad, who looked to quit three times from basically single shots to rate him that highly. You have to be a warrior to be rated with warriors.

lufcrazy · 12-09-2012, 03:29 PM

no, you just have to achieve greatness to be rated with the greats.

dinovelvet · 12-09-2012, 04:51 PM

He hasn't achieved greatness. You're extremely naive , dumb or in denial. He never beat anybody close to being great, or even a HOFer so he has NEVER been proven at elite level. . Greatness doesn't come with limited skills, no inside game and no adaptablity with 3 brutal ko loses to nobody's. It feels like im explaining this to a child.

What woulld Vladdy do if he got his nose split wide open from a punch? Do you think he'd go out guns blazing and score a ko victory? No, he would be helicopter'd out of there to the nearest hospital.

Marciano was the very essence of boxing who's classic fights will never be forgotten. Show me a Wlad fight that matches up to the likes of Walcott, Lastraza or Charles. Show me any exciting Wlad fight.
Make me laugh?

dinovelvet · 12-09-2012, 04:54 PM

'Since when has toughness become a criteria for greatness?'

You just reached a new low with that statement. Mental toughness is an attribute and makes or breaks fighters.

HOUDINI · 12-09-2012, 05:12 PM

The characteristics of a great fighter have been handed down from a hundred years ago or more. Fleischer wrote about this extensively in his book 50 years at ringside. One of these characteristics is "the ability to stand up against punishment". This would encompass a good chin and of course courage. Going down in sections in his losses to Purity, Brewster and Sanders and in all three really looking as if he wanted to quit shows he has no chin and when his chin is dented a real lack of courage/fighting heart. I can't think of another fighter who is thought of as an all time great hwt that had a bad chin and no heart....do you?

HOUDINI · 12-09-2012, 05:20 PM

He has no chin and quits when things get really tough.

12-09-2012, 10:36 AM	#287
dinovelvet Up Top To The Head East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 5,040 vCash: 910	Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano He came back to fight old, washed up nobody's. It just doesn't register does it.
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12-09-2012, 10:37 AM	#288
HOUDINI Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 708 vCash: 500	Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano Does not demonstrate all time great skills. Being able to take a punch, toughness, and the courage not to give up when really hurt are marls of a great champion. He is not tough and looks to the exits when hurt.
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12-09-2012, 10:49 AM	#290
HOUDINI Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 708 vCash: 500	Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano No. Watch how badly he was koed those three times. All time greats don't show those characteristics. Down in sections, stumbling all over the ring, obviously not wanting to fight anymore. Being spoke of in the same vein as Ali, Louis and Marciano cannot be easy to attain...the fighter has to show all time great skills and physical and mental fortitude. Only select few are given all time great status and Wlad with those three losses does not justify to be spoke of at that high a level. Really hurt him and he wants to quit.
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12-09-2012, 11:03 AM	#294
dinovelvet Up Top To The Head East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 5,040 vCash: 910	Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano Is there a whole new level of titles in this "SHW division"
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12-09-2012, 11:06 AM	#295
HOUDINI Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 708 vCash: 500	Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano Marciano exhibited all time great abilities and physical/mental toughness. Wlad when he gets clocked wants to go home. No fighter with that low a level of toughness cannot be rated as an all time great fighter. Its a total dis service to all those who did have all time great abilities to list Wlad, who looked to quit three times from basically single shots to rate him that highly. You have to be a warrior to be rated with warriors.
Top

12-09-2012, 03:29 PM	#296
lufcrazy requiescat in pace East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England, Up North Posts: 22,448 vCash: 330	Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano no, you just have to achieve greatness to be rated with the greats.
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12-09-2012, 04:51 PM	#297
dinovelvet Up Top To The Head East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 5,040 vCash: 910	Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano He hasn't achieved greatness. You're extremely naive , dumb or in denial. He never beat anybody close to being great, or even a HOFer so he has NEVER been proven at elite level. . Greatness doesn't come with limited skills, no inside game and no adaptablity with 3 brutal ko loses to nobody's. It feels like im explaining this to a child. What woulld Vladdy do if he got his nose split wide open from a punch? Do you think he'd go out guns blazing and score a ko victory? No, he would be helicopter'd out of there to the nearest hospital. Marciano was the very essence of boxing who's classic fights will never be forgotten. Show me a Wlad fight that matches up to the likes of Walcott, Lastraza or Charles. Show me any exciting Wlad fight. Make me laugh?
Top

12-09-2012, 04:54 PM	#298
dinovelvet Up Top To The Head East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 5,040 vCash: 910	Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano 'Since when has toughness become a criteria for greatness?' You just reached a new low with that statement. Mental toughness is an attribute and makes or breaks fighters.
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12-09-2012, 05:12 PM	#299
HOUDINI Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 708 vCash: 500	Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano The characteristics of a great fighter have been handed down from a hundred years ago or more. Fleischer wrote about this extensively in his book 50 years at ringside. One of these characteristics is "the ability to stand up against punishment". This would encompass a good chin and of course courage. Going down in sections in his losses to Purity, Brewster and Sanders and in all three really looking as if he wanted to quit shows he has no chin and when his chin is dented a real lack of courage/fighting heart. I can't think of another fighter who is thought of as an all time great hwt that had a bad chin and no heart....do you?
Top

12-09-2012, 05:20 PM	#300
HOUDINI Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 708 vCash: 500	Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano He has no chin and quits when things get really tough.
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