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Old 12-09-2012, 05:30 PM   #301
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
He hasn't achieved greatness. You're extremely naive , dumb or in denial. He never beat anybody close to being great, or even a HOFer so he has NEVER been proven at elite level. . Greatness doesn't come with limited skills, no inside game and no adaptablity with 3 brutal ko loses to nobody's. It feels like im explaining this to a child.

What woulld Vladdy do if he got his nose split wide open from a punch? Do you think he'd go out guns blazing and score a ko victory? No, he would be helicopter'd out of there to the nearest hospital.

Marciano was the very essence of boxing who's classic fights will never be forgotten. Show me a Wlad fight that matches up to the likes of Walcott, Lastraza or Charles. Show me any exciting Wlad fight.
Make me laugh?
what a shit circular argument. If you have to beat a great to be great there would never be any greats.

Wlad isn't exciting, he's boringly dominant

few in history suffer 3 knockouts and go on to dominate a division in such a way. Very few have demonstrated that level of mental fortitude.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:35 PM   #302
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
He hasn't achieved greatness. You're extremely naive , dumb or in denial. He never beat anybody close to being great, or even a HOFer so he has NEVER been proven at elite level. . Greatness doesn't come with limited skills, no inside game and no adaptablity with 3 brutal ko loses to nobody's. It feels like im explaining this to a child.

What woulld Vladdy do if he got his nose split wide open from a punch? Do you think he'd go out guns blazing and score a ko victory? No, he would be helicopter'd out of there to the nearest hospital.

Marciano was the very essence of boxing who's classic fights will never be forgotten. Show me a Wlad fight that matches up to the likes of Walcott, Lastraza or Charles. Show me any exciting Wlad fight.
Make me laugh?
Brutal KO losses? Vlad was never unconscious. He was never unable to get to his feet. There was nothing brutal about the Puritty loss, if anything it was a premature stoppage. And Vlad did avenge the loss to Brewster. Sanders was by far his worst loss but Sanders was a big, hard-hitting southpaw with fast hands.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:46 PM   #303
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

I didn't say he had to beat a great. Nobody on his CV is even close to HOF worthy. He has NEVER been proven at elite level, ever. To argure against this fact makes you look foolish.

He dominated against over 40's , washed up bottom feeders , it doesn't matter.

Im telling it how it is. You are naive, uneducated or in denial.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:46 PM   #304
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Watch the fights again...Wlad went down in sections, falling all over the ring looking as if he was crying for his mommy. For Gods sake he was koed and looked as if he wanted to quit against Ross Purity..a complete bum.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:13 PM   #305
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

It was meant for Lufcrazy.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:33 PM   #306
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

No,
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:08 PM   #307
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Wasn't Marciano dominating older men and washed up fighters, also?
Old cruiserweight runts with shaky chins. This while wearing 6 ounce gloves. Can you imagine what would happen to Marcy Anna's little head if Vlad dropped the bomb on him wearing 6 ounce gloves?
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:18 PM   #308
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
I didn't say he had to beat a great. Nobody on his CV is even close to HOF worthy. He has NEVER been proven at elite level, ever. To argure against this fact makes you look foolish.

He dominated against over 40's , washed up bottom feeders , it doesn't matter.

Im telling it how it is. You are naive, uneducated or in denial.
Horseshit. Haye, Chambers, Peter, Chagaev, Byrd, etc. were in their primes and they were not bottom feeders by any means.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:09 PM   #309
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Watch the fights again...Wlad went down in sections, falling all over the ring looking as if he was crying for his mommy. For Gods sake he was koed and looked as if he wanted to quit against Ross Purity..a complete bum.
So there's no difference to you between gassing and being knocked unconscious?
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:02 AM   #310
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Guys, about their respective height and reach...one must remember that Tyson in terms of dimensions was barely bigger than Rocky, standing a listed (and disputed) 5'11" with a 72" reach, which when you consider is measured from wingtip to wingtip, with Tyson being a little broader around the shoulders than Rocky, is not significantly more than Marciano's 67". It's actually quite surprising how insignificant that 5" really is, all things considered.
Tyson never had a problem reaching guys 6'5", 6'6" or whatever.

Of course, Tyson and Rocky have completely different physical characteristics and different styles so I'm not saying that Marciano would be as effective against huge guys, but I am suggesting that it's not as if Rocky literally could not reach Wlad's chin.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:32 AM   #311
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Guys, about their respective height and reach...one must remember that Tyson in terms of dimensions was barely bigger than Rocky, standing a listed (and disputed) 5'11" with a 72" reach, which when you consider is measured from wingtip to wingtip, with Tyson being a little broader around the shoulders than Rocky, is not significantly more than Marciano's 67". It's actually quite surprising how insignificant that 5" really is, all things considered.
Tyson never had a problem reaching guys 6'5", 6'6" or whatever.

Of course, Tyson and Rocky have completely different physical characteristics and different styles so I'm not saying that Marciano would be as effective against huge guys, but I am suggesting that it's not as if Rocky literally could not reach Wlad's chin.
Marciano doesn't have the foot speed and explosiveness. He doesn't have a Michael Jordan-like first step to be able to time Vlad and jump inside on him. Tyson wasn't a slow-rolling pressure fighter like Marciano.

And stop trying to minimize the size difference between Marciano and Tyson. Their height and reach might have been similar but that's about it. Tyson was more heavily muscled, while being faster than Marciano. Tyson was a solid 215-220 at 22 years old. Marciano actually weighed in under 180 several times at 25-26.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:52 AM   #312
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

I like Bernard Hopkins' shot at beating Rocky more than Rocky's shot at beating Wlad.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:21 AM   #313
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Some excellent arguments made here, but also a lot of pointless dickwaving. Guys, if you are seriously making the argument that either Marciano or Wlad Klitschko are not greats, you need to take up knitting instead.

Honestly, I believe that this fight would come down to what would happen in the later rounds. The question would simply be: after Marciano had been receiving Klitschko's jab for ten rounds, and being leaned on for ten rounds ... and after Wlad had been worked over on the inside by Rocky for that long: who would have the most heart? Who would have enough gas in reserve? Not saying that Wlad doesn't have any heart, because he does - he was still trying to get up and fight after the fourth Sanders knockdown - but I think ROcky would always have more guts than Wlad and take it late via stoppage or points.

But, that assumes, of course, that he would have landed his fair share of shots. Its possible as well, that Klitschko jabs him, then ties him up instantly and leans on him over and over, without taking much damage from Marciano while exhausting the Rock in the process. In which case, Marciano loses to a late stoppage or points.

I don't believe an early stoppage is on the cards at all, and if there was one, it would be Marciano getting lucky and catching Wlad cold early.

There's imho, no real way to determine how such a style-dependent clash would go down without watching it.

2 cents ...
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:31 AM   #314
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by rusak View Post
Marciano doesn't have the foot speed and explosiveness. He doesn't have a Michael Jordan-like first step to be able to time Vlad and jump inside on him. Tyson wasn't a slow-rolling pressure fighter like Marciano.

And stop trying to minimize the size difference between Marciano and Tyson. Their height and reach might have been similar but that's about it. Tyson was more heavily muscled, while being faster than Marciano. Tyson was a solid 215-220 at 22 years old. Marciano actually weighed in under 180 several times at 25-26.
No shit, Sherlock. I said as much already, but didn't elaborate because the differences between the two is painfully obvious.
But people do get hung up on dimensions, not only in this matchup but nearly all matchups.

I have already made my pick and will stick to it. But Rocky could reach Wlad's chin, even though he most likely wouldn't, or not enought to sway things. That was the only point I was trying to make. Physically, it's possible. That's it.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:57 AM   #315
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Some excellent arguments made here, but also a lot of pointless dickwaving.
Yeah, unfortunately that's true. Internet arguments are often really nothing more than games of one-upmanship between posters, with neither side willing to concede an inch for fear of losing face.

I love Rocky Marciano...one of my all-time faves, but for me personally this fight is a bridge too far for him. I don't mind admitting that. His legacy is secure, and he will always be a much-respectd and admired ATG, regardless of what Wladimir does.
Silly little internet arguments and petty personal lists don't and won't change that.
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