Recovering from big knockout defeats

UncleChris · 12-09-2012, 02:36 PM

Debate with a friend after Pacquiao defeat yesterday. He says he thinks Pacquiao will be able to recover and again be the kind of fighter who beat (I know, I know...) Bradley. I say recoveries from knockouts as heavy as that are extremely rare. So, examples of both would be good to hear. Guys who were at the top or at least on the up, then came to a grinding halt when victim to a big KO like last night's and just never looked the same again. Alternatively, those boxers who met with this adversity but recovered to become equally good, or even better, fighters than they were before.

What springs to mind, folks? Meldrick Taylor never recovered from Chavez...perhaps George Foreman recovered from Ali to beat Lyle and Frazier, albeit two years later?

KOTF · 12-09-2012, 02:43 PM

Taylor did recover after Chavez. He had the 2nd best victory of his career when he beat Aaron Davis for a WW title. It was only until he ran into Norris (in a weight class he shouldn't be fighting at) that his career came crashing down.

Speaking of Norris, he got brutally KO'd by Julian Jackson but ended up winning the 154 lb. title shortly after.

Wladimir Klitschko was TKO'd three times but he turned out pretty well.

Holyfield got TKO'd by Bowe yet upset Tyson.

JWSoats · 12-09-2012, 03:01 PM

Not the same after:

Joe Frazier after Foreman stopped him, altho he really wasn't the same since the FOTC.

Ezzard Charles after Marciano II. (In fact, several fighters were never the same, or retired after facing the Rock - e.g. Walcott, Louis.)

Lou Nova after Galento

Recovered to fight successfully again:

Louis after Schmeling I

Patterson after Johansson, Liston, Ali

Fullmer after Robinson II

Walcott after Louis II

Archie Moore after Charles III, Marciano

Harold Johnson after Moore IV

Lennox Lewis after McCall, Rahaman

Wlad after Sanders

salsanchezfan · 12-09-2012, 03:47 PM

It's such an individual thing. So much has to do with where a fighter is at career-wise to make any sense of this. If this was a young Pacquiao who hadn't been in so many tough fights over so many years, I might say he could rebound, but not this version. One could very well argue he's been on borrowed time for awhile now. Too old now, too far removed from his best, lower weights. There's also now the question with him about focus. From what I understand, he leads quite the renaissance life, with the political thing, movies, singing, etc. Too many distractions now as well.

knockout artist · 12-09-2012, 04:16 PM

Hearns won titles at MW, SMW and LHW after losing by KO to Marvin Hagler and Iran Barkley

AlFrancis · 12-09-2012, 04:39 PM

Graziano Zale!

AlFrancis · 12-09-2012, 04:44 PM

Pedroza Zamora!
Winstone Jeffries!

TBooze · 12-09-2012, 05:16 PM

There was this Panamanian fella who nearly five years after being assassinated by the 'Hitman' beat Iran Barkley; arguably a decade and 25lbs past his pomp...

Jear · 12-09-2012, 05:19 PM

Gonzalez came back to twice beat Carbajal after Carbajal KOd him

fists of fury · 12-09-2012, 05:22 PM

It's very possible, but it does depend on the psyche of the fighter in question. This isn't the first time Pac has been knocked out, so it's quite possible he will bounce back. Whether he will be the exact same force remains to be seen though.

While we can't be sure of what goes on behind closed doors, Pacquiao impressed me with his attitude after the fight. He accepted the loss with good graces, and didn't make excuses. To me, that's half the battle won right there.

MAG1965 · 12-09-2012, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleChris

Debate with a friend after Pacquiao defeat yesterday. He says he thinks Pacquiao will be able to recover and again be the kind of fighter who beat (I know, I know...) Bradley. I say recoveries from knockouts as heavy as that are extremely rare. So, examples of both would be good to hear. Guys who were at the top or at least on the up, then came to a grinding halt when victim to a big KO like last night's and just never looked the same again. Alternatively, those boxers who met with this adversity but recovered to become equally good, or even better, fighters than they were before.

What springs to mind, folks? Meldrick Taylor never recovered from Chavez...perhaps George Foreman recovered from Ali to beat Lyle and Frazier, albeit two years later?

the ones who recovered well had to compensate for the knockout by being a little more defensive. I thought Manny would find a jab against Marquez last night. I really did, and still think if he comes back he will have to use his jab more because from now on guys are going to wait and try and knock him out again. He has to change his style like Hearns or Foreman did. If he doesn't this will be a recurring event with him being stopped. Hearns never was as reckless after Barkley as he was before.

Jear · 12-09-2012, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAG1965

the ones who recovered well had to compensate for the knockout by being a little more defensive. I thought Manny would find a jab against Marquez last night. I really did, and still think if he comes back he will have to use his jab more because from now on guys are going to wait and try and knock him out again. He has to change his style like Hearns or Foreman did. If he doesn't this will be a recurring event with him being stopped. Hearns never was as reckless after Barkley as he was before.

I agree. Pac said prior to the fight he was determined to KO Marquez because he wanted a definitive victory over JMM. I think he forced it once the momentum swung his way. He got a little reckless chasing the KO and paid the price

OvidsExile · 12-09-2012, 07:24 PM

Most of those guys who bounce back were young when it happened. They learned from their mistakes and became better fighters. Pacman is 33 and 61 fights in. He's about where Duran was when Hearns KO'd him. He might have one more Iran Barkley type effort left in him, but even if he isn't physically effected this does hurt his gate and the kind of superfights he had coming in his way.

MagnaNasakki · 12-09-2012, 07:29 PM

Returning from being crushed often depends on youth and time.

Pacquiao is short on both, so his odds don't seem good. You need time to ge the confidence back, time to recover, and time to make the adjustments that correct the problem(s) that got you caught.

That said, you can only get concussed like that so many times in a career. Manny doesn't want that to happen again, and it seems probable his chin might not be the same after last night. Once the rock cracks like that, it often stays chipped.

ArseBandit · 12-09-2012, 08:22 PM

Pac did this already.

He won't be doing it again though.

12-09-2012, 02:36 PM	#1
UncleChris Journeyman Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Not far from Belfast, Northern Ireland Posts: 71 vCash: 500	Recovering from big knockout defeats Debate with a friend after Pacquiao defeat yesterday. He says he thinks Pacquiao will be able to recover and again be the kind of fighter who beat (I know, I know...) Bradley. I say recoveries from knockouts as heavy as that are extremely rare. So, examples of both would be good to hear. Guys who were at the top or at least on the up, then came to a grinding halt when victim to a big KO like last night's and just never looked the same again. Alternatively, those boxers who met with this adversity but recovered to become equally good, or even better, fighters than they were before. What springs to mind, folks? Meldrick Taylor never recovered from Chavez...perhaps George Foreman recovered from Ali to beat Lyle and Frazier, albeit two years later?
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12-09-2012, 02:43 PM	#2
KOTF Bingooo East Side Guru Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Playa Vista, Los Angeles Posts: 7,680 vCash: 60874	Re: Recovering from big knockout defeats Taylor did recover after Chavez. He had the 2nd best victory of his career when he beat Aaron Davis for a WW title. It was only until he ran into Norris (in a weight class he shouldn't be fighting at) that his career came crashing down. Speaking of Norris, he got brutally KO'd by Julian Jackson but ended up winning the 154 lb. title shortly after. Wladimir Klitschko was TKO'd three times but he turned out pretty well. Holyfield got TKO'd by Bowe yet upset Tyson.
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12-09-2012, 03:01 PM	#3
JWSoats Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 281 vCash: 500	Re: Recovering from big knockout defeats Not the same after: Joe Frazier after Foreman stopped him, altho he really wasn't the same since the FOTC. Ezzard Charles after Marciano II. (In fact, several fighters were never the same, or retired after facing the Rock - e.g. Walcott, Louis.) Lou Nova after Galento Recovered to fight successfully again: Louis after Schmeling I Patterson after Johansson, Liston, Ali Fullmer after Robinson II Walcott after Louis II Archie Moore after Charles III, Marciano Harold Johnson after Moore IV Lennox Lewis after McCall, Rahaman Wlad after Sanders
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12-09-2012, 03:47 PM	#4
salsanchezfan Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 6,895 vCash: 1000	Re: Recovering from big knockout defeats It's such an individual thing. So much has to do with where a fighter is at career-wise to make any sense of this. If this was a young Pacquiao who hadn't been in so many tough fights over so many years, I might say he could rebound, but not this version. One could very well argue he's been on borrowed time for awhile now. Too old now, too far removed from his best, lower weights. There's also now the question with him about focus. From what I understand, he leads quite the renaissance life, with the political thing, movies, singing, etc. Too many distractions now as well.
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12-09-2012, 04:16 PM	#5
knockout artist Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 3,631 vCash: 2666	Re: Recovering from big knockout defeats Hearns won titles at MW, SMW and LHW after losing by KO to Marvin Hagler and Iran Barkley
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12-09-2012, 04:39 PM	#6
AlFrancis Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Granada, Spain. Posts: 3,957 vCash: 1000	Re: Recovering from big knockout defeats Graziano Zale!
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12-09-2012, 04:44 PM	#7
AlFrancis Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Granada, Spain. Posts: 3,957 vCash: 1000	Re: Recovering from big knockout defeats Pedroza Zamora! Winstone Jeffries!
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12-09-2012, 05:16 PM	#8
TBooze Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South of London Posts: 9,794 vCash: 0	Re: Recovering from big knockout defeats There was this Panamanian fella who nearly five years after being assassinated by the 'Hitman' beat Iran Barkley; arguably a decade and 25lbs past his pomp...
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12-09-2012, 05:19 PM	#9
Jear Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 777 vCash: 1000	Re: Recovering from big knockout defeats Gonzalez came back to twice beat Carbajal after Carbajal KOd him
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12-09-2012, 05:22 PM	#10
fists of fury Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: March for Revenge Posts: 10,607 vCash: 1325	Re: Recovering from big knockout defeats It's very possible, but it does depend on the psyche of the fighter in question. This isn't the first time Pac has been knocked out, so it's quite possible he will bounce back. Whether he will be the exact same force remains to be seen though. While we can't be sure of what goes on behind closed doors, Pacquiao impressed me with his attitude after the fight. He accepted the loss with good graces, and didn't make excuses. To me, that's half the battle won right there.
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12-09-2012, 07:24 PM	#13
OvidsExile Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 280 vCash: 500	Re: Recovering from big knockout defeats Most of those guys who bounce back were young when it happened. They learned from their mistakes and became better fighters. Pacman is 33 and 61 fights in. He's about where Duran was when Hearns KO'd him. He might have one more Iran Barkley type effort left in him, but even if he isn't physically effected this does hurt his gate and the kind of superfights he had coming in his way.
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12-09-2012, 07:29 PM	#14
MagnaNasakki Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,820 vCash: 1000	Re: Recovering from big knockout defeats Returning from being crushed often depends on youth and time. Pacquiao is short on both, so his odds don't seem good. You need time to ge the confidence back, time to recover, and time to make the adjustments that correct the problem(s) that got you caught. That said, you can only get concussed like that so many times in a career. Manny doesn't want that to happen again, and it seems probable his chin might not be the same after last night. Once the rock cracks like that, it often stays chipped.
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12-09-2012, 08:22 PM	#15
ArseBandit Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 956 vCash: 108	Re: Recovering from big knockout defeats Pac did this already. He won't be doing it again though.
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