Your opinion about Pac/JMM 4

[esrotak]

First of all, props to Marquez for that very impressive KO win over Pac. Honestly, I was shocked and I know for a fact that the whole world felt the same way. My question is... "Does (Pac/JMM-4) fight prove that Marquez is better than Pac? I'm not trying to be a pactard here but I think that they are really evenly matched. It just happened that Marquez got that punch (should I say lucky punch?) landed, which ended the fight.

I think Pac needs to make a crucial decision at this moment, be a full time boxer or just retire from boxing. I don't think Pac is shot (watch the 4th round). If he decides to fight again, I want Pac/Marquez 5. That 4th round is a flashback of the young Pacman and Marquez.

[BigBone]

I guess the right hand that put Pac on his ass was a lucky punch too, so was the one that hurt Pac in the 5th, so was the one that put down the sparring partner 3 weeks ago.

http://i48.tinypic.com/54yuls.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/sparring59d49.gif

[Miguel]

No, it wasn't a lucky punch, it was a greatly timed punch - the luck about it was that Pacquiao left his chin open at a time when Marquez was really struggling - it was a life saver of an opportunity and it's lucky it arrived at that time. But the punch itself was brilliantly executed and timed.

Pacquiao looked far from shot - Pacquiao is not the first champion to take a punch like this. Look at Lennox Lewis against Rahman who is far inferior or Paul Wililams against Sergio. If you're off balance, falling forward with your chin exposed and someone bangs you with a punch you don't see you're down, no matter how good you are or how good your chin is.

Pacquiao looked far from a finished fighter, apart from the reckless wild punch that lead to his KO, it was almost vintage Pacquiao and Marquez was struggling big time

But the KO can have psychological effects - Pacquiao can go the way of Cotto or the way of Lennox Lewis

[Suga]

It was not a lucky punch. Marquez was settlng him up for that one. The rivalry finally has its real winner, Marquez is definately the better of the two. He fought Pacquiao 4 times, every one of them he was told that either Pac is a monster or has improved. It was only this fourth fight that people said Pac is declining, and lets not forget that in the last two fights Marquez was forced to fight at welterweight, so yes considering all the 4 fights together and the circumstances Marquez has fought in he is definately better than Pac head to head

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Suga

It was not a lucky punch. Marquez was settlng him up for that one. The rivalry finally has its real winner, Marquez is definately the better of the two. He fought Pacquiao 4 times, every one of them he was told that either Pac is a monster or has improved. It was only this fourth fight that people said Pac is declining, and lets not forget that in the last two fights Marquez was forced to fight at welterweight, so yes considering all the 4 fights together and the circumstances Marquez has fought in he is definately better than Pac head to head

They fought at 144 in the 3rd fight - this one was a legit 147 fight

[Doc]

No, I rather see him against MAY then the dragon.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by BigBone

I guess the right hand that put Pac on his ass was a lucky punch too, so was the one that hurt Pac in the 5th, so was the one that put down the sparring partner 3 weeks ago.

http://i48.tinypic.com/54yuls.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/sparring59d49.gif

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dq4xmUTFk3...KI/s1600/4.gif

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hP6RILg8cw...6A/s1600/2.gif

[haglerwon]

I think Marquez always gives Pac problems and vice versa (provided neither suddenly gets old). Their styles are an almost-perfect mesh.

If you ignore the blatantly Arumescent judging, it's 3-1 to JMM at this point in four very close fights (not counting the KO). Definitely not a fluke.

[esrotak]

Originally Posted by Miguel

No, it wasn't a lucky punch, it was a greatly timed punch - the luck about it was that Pacquiao left his chin open at a time when Marquez was really struggling - it was a life saver of an opportunity and it's lucky it arrived at that time. But the punch itself was brilliantly executed and timed.

Pacquiao looked far from shot - Pacquiao is not the first champion to take a punch like this. Look at Lennox Lewis against Rahman who is far inferior or Paul Wililams against Sergio. If you're off balance, falling forward with your chin exposed and someone bangs you with a punch you don't see you're down, no matter how good you are or how good your chin is.

Pacquiao looked far from a finished fighter, apart from the reckless wild punch that lead to his KO, it was almost vintage Pacquiao and Marquez was struggling big time

But the KO can have psychological effects - Pacquiao can go the way of Cotto or the way of Lennox Lewis

Great explanation there Miguel.

I didn't mean to say that JMM's win was because of a lucky punch. It was Pac's mistake for being careless. I'm just saying that the fight was really close and entertaining until the KO. I even thought Pac came back after the first knockdown and was ahead on the scorecards. JMM was bloodied as well. Let's me rephrase my question, does that fight prove that Pacquiao is no match to Marquez? What do you think about Pac/JMM 5?

[ElCep]

Originally Posted by esrotak

First of all, props to Marquez for that very impressive KO win over Pac. Honestly, I was shocked and I know for a fact that the whole world felt the same way. My question is... "Does (Pac/JMM-4) fight prove that Marquez is better than Pac? I'm not trying to be a pactard here but I think that they are really evenly matched. It just happened that Marquez got that punch (should I say lucky punch?) landed, which ended the fight.

I think Pac needs to make a crucial decision at this moment, be a full time boxer or just retire from boxing. I don't think Pac is shot (watch the 4th round). If he decides to fight again, I want Pac/Marquez 5. That 4th round is a flashback of the young Pacman and Marquez.

Who is better - Pac or JMM - is kind of a dull debate. They both offer something different but equally great, however, I think Manny's career achievements clearly surpass those of JMM.

Pac is a full-time boxer, he's one of the most consistent and active around. Just because he has interests outside doesn't automatically mean they are detrimental to his boxing career. All fighters who reach a certain level of success have external interests. At least Pac has Arum to do the legwork.

[PH|LLA]

Pac is just no longer the fighter he used to be. Been on a steady decline for years.

Best reflection of Pac and JMM head to head at their best is the first two fights.

Pac fought a great fight in the early rounds but for him to get decked in the 3rd and KTFO in the 5th is really uncharacteristic of him especially since as we know he's fought a younger JMM over 36 rounds and never even touched the canvas.

Pac's deteriorating athleticism has cost him a big part of his ability. Yes he fought well but he also looked a little lethargic at times, so early in the fight. Even my girl at the mid point of the 5th round said "he looks tired" and really she knows little to nothing about the sport.

Pac of old is no more, and that's been going on for years.

Saturday's fight made me think of RJJ vs Tarver.

[Suga]

Originally Posted by Miguel

They fought at 144 in the 3rd fight - this one was a legit 147 fight

True. But both were recognized as welterweight bouts as I remember. And both were Pacquiaos demands.

[Suga]

Originally Posted by PH|LLA

Pac is just no longer the fighter he used to be. Been on a steady decline for years.

Best reflection of Pac and JMM head to head at their best is the first two fights.

Pac fought a great fight in the early rounds but for him to get decked in the 3rd and KTFO in the 5th is really uncharacteristic of him especially since as we know he's fought a younger JMM over 36 rounds and never even touched the canvas.

Pac's deteriorating athleticism has cost him a big part of his ability. Yes he fought well but he also looked a little lethargic at times, so early in the fight. Even my girl at the mid point of the 5th round said "he looks tired" and really she knows little to nothing about the sport.

Pac of old is no more, and that's been going on for years.

Saturday's fight made me think of RJJ vs Tarver.

Old or young Marquez still looked better in all 4 fights.

[bobotnaman]

Originally Posted by Suga

True. But both were recognized as welterweight bouts as I remember. And both were Pacquiaos demands.

IIRC the 144 catchweight was a JMM camp demand, might be wrong though.

[KERRIGAN]

Originally Posted by Suga

Old or young Marquez still looked better in all 4 fights.

Marquez was getting busted up and looked like he was the one going to be stopped.