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Old 12-10-2012, 02:57 PM   #61
SweetHome_Bama
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

MArquez is clearly on PEDs why is everyone acting like it is absurd to say he is?

Marquez teamed up with Angel for one reason and one reason only, and it worked exceptionally well. There is a reason he didn't pay for Angel's service when he fought Fedchenko and why he looked poor in that fight as well.

He got great help for his last fight and congrats to him, but we all know what it is.

Same with Manny and his "meteoric" rise.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:57 PM   #62
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

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Originally Posted by KnuckleUp99 View Post
100% agree...however....Being able to withstand and take the amount of punishment Juan absorbed was something to be in awe over...most men wouldn't have made it out of round 5 after that many flush, straight left hands that PAC was feeding Juan.

The fact that after round fight and after 2:59 of getting dominated in round 6....Juan was skillful and had the vision to see the opportunity and capitalize on it. That's a special ability from a master boxer. Juan laid a trap and PAC fell right in.
It took a substantial amount of poise, focus, skill and precision to set that trap and follow through in executing it. Marquez had been looking for it all night and loading up on everything, but I'm sure he had to be almost as caught off guard as the rest of us in the Pacquiao that showed up Saturday night. Juan was hurt and busted up.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:57 PM   #63
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

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Old 12-10-2012, 02:59 PM   #64
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

Its funny how people bury their head in the sand whenever it suits them best.

Look, I love Marquez, I just ordered his career set! But to act as if you are sure nothing is happening here, well I think its a bit naive.

He is 39, recently started working with a man convicted of using illegal methods of performance enhancement. Now he can eat Pacquiao's straight lefts like skittles and seriously hurt him with single punches? Hang on, when did that happen?

Either Heredia has the most exceptional and effective weight training programme seen in boxing, or something more underhand was going on. Its one or the other, so you decide.

Personally, I'm not going to execute Marquez. I take it at face value until proven guilty, so the win is great in my opinion. Doesn't mean I have no suspicions though.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:00 PM   #65
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

Marquez is cheater bastard.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:00 PM   #66
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

I find two things funny about this:

1) Pac fans that had previously defended functional weight gain and carrying power up to higher weights, now accusing another fighter of potentially using PEDs.

2) Floyds fans that had previously been on the 'Pac is a PED user' train, based on improvements later in a career, and functional weight gain over a number of years, are now dismissing JMM's sudden changes as a few weeks worth of work in the gym. This is despite the fact that he has never looked like this, has been a pro for nearly 20 years, is pushing 40 years old and only had one straight KO to his name in the last decade.

Basically, everyone is suspicious, and hard-core Pac/Floyd fans are both idiotic. Given the number of people caught recently, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find hard evidence that Pac, JMM and Floyd had all used PEDs. In a way, it's justice for JMM if Pac had been using.

Ultimately it's just a shame that the Floyd Pac fight is now off for ever (most likely). It would have been one of Floyd's most competitive fights if it had occurred a few years ago, but Pac has more miles on the clock despite the younger age (18 more fights and nearly 2 more years as a pro, and amateur fights don't add anywhere near as much to the clock). I would have always picked Floyd to win, but I don't watch boxing for mismatches, and at least it would have been interesting.

We had a real golden age in the lower weight classes over the last decade, but somehow a lot of the fights that we wanted didn't happen until they were way past their sell by date, or didn't happen at all. Let's hope the new crop of fighters coming through are more willing to make the fights when they matter.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:03 PM   #67
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

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Originally Posted by SweetHome_Bama View Post
MArquez is clearly on PEDs why is everyone acting like it is absurd to say he is?

Marquez teamed up with Angel for one reason and one reason only, and it worked exceptionally well. There is a reason he didn't pay for Angel's service when he fought Fedchenko and why he looked poor in that fight as well.

He got great help for his last fight and congrats to him, but we all know what it is.

Same with Manny and his "meteoric" rise.
If PEDs develop skills and power, almost everyone will have power and supreme skills in this sport. Fact is, Marquez fought as he always did only this time he was clearly looking to hurt Pacquiao with every counter possible. Even in trying that he was actually losing the fight, suffered a concusion, broken nose and cuts. I didn't see anything supernatural or new from Marquez besides his commitment to his punches this time rather than aiming to score rounds/points.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:03 PM   #68
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

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Originally Posted by bazza12 View Post
Its funny how people bury their head in the sand whenever it suits them best.

Look, I love Marquez, I just ordered his career set! But to act as if you are sure nothing is happening here, well I think its a bit naive.

He is 39, recently started working with a man convicted of using illegal methods of performance enhancement. Now he can eat Pacquiao's straight lefts like skittles and seriously hurt him with single punches? Hang on, when did that happen?

Either Heredia has the most exceptional and effective weight training programme seen in boxing, or something more underhand was going on. Its one or the other, so you decide.

Personally, I'm not going to execute Marquez. I take it at face value until proven guilty, so the win is great in my opinion. Doesn't mean I have no suspicions though.
TBH I think the improvements can be attributed to the fact that he stopped drinking his own piss. Poor Marquez was chronically dehydrated due to only drinking his own urine.

Also Heredia made him eat lots of Broccoli. That shit is powefull

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Old 12-10-2012, 03:08 PM   #69
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

LOL...the hypocrisy is amazing, don't dispute that anyone could be on PED's, but the implication of JMM after all the deflection by the same people in relation to Manny is unreal.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:08 PM   #70
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

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Marquez is cheater bastard.
and what is even more pathetic is his fans ignore this fact that he trains with a known ped dealer and they still think he won fairly.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:09 PM   #71
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

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Heredia prouds himself on being able to supply his athletes with performance enhancing drugs such as HGH/anabolic steroids and helping them pass tests by way of simply popping a few pills.

Why would Marquez work with him? Because he helps him with a nutritional program? Come on....


I love Marquez, a great fighter and a great boxer.. PEDs don't make his legacy, his skills do. But I am utterly convinced he's on them.
And you may very well be right, but on the other hand, steroids do not give you skills, heart, courage. I know you've already said as much, but it bears repeating.
It's hard to know who is clean (if anyone is these days) and who is not.

It's a real pity that there is more talk of PED use than there is of boxing science these days. Marquez, as far as I'm concerned, won fair and square.
Until proven otherwise...
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:09 PM   #72
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

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Originally Posted by Danebrogen View Post
TBH I think the improvements can be attributed to the fact that he stopped drinking his own piss. Poor Marquez was chronically dehydrated due to only drinking his own urine.

Also Heredia made him eat lots of Broccoli. That shit is powefull

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Chock-full of Indole-3-Carbinol.

All cruciferous vegetables are beneficial.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:10 PM   #73
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

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This. In reality if someone wanted to gain muscle for purely appearance, the gains Marquez has made in a year would be considered poor. you would not need any form of steroids to gain more than double what Marquez has gained.
I totally agree with that statement. I personnaly see the difference on my body after a few months (two) and I don't have the body type to gain much muscle quickly. What bother me is that Marquez said in the interview that those muscle didn't help him. That answer really sounds suspicious to me. If he trained hard for them, then he would have been proud and said "yes", it made a difference.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:11 PM   #74
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

This is Mayweather type crap ! Get rid of this thread now.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:12 PM   #75
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Default Re: NY Times suspicious of Márquez

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Leave the model minority alone guys.

For 3 years Floyds been asking to take the tests, hes been called a coward, a liar, and lost a lawsuit because of it.

Now that the shoes on the other foot you got the ****ing nytimes accusing a guy who said hed gladly take any tests available of steroids.

Laughable
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