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Old 12-10-2012, 10:07 AM   #31
RockyJim
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

Out of the 3 you mentioned...George Foreman...he totally destroyed Joe Frazier...the man who beat Ali in 1971..(even though Joe left everything he had in the FOTC that night and was never the same...)...detroyed Ken Norton..who had beaten Ali in 1973...and broke his jaw...the press thought that Ali was making a HUGE mistake in fighting Foreman in 1974...that Ali was going to be KO'd...that his career was over after this fight...etc. We all know what happen in Zaire...after the Frazier fight in '73 they all said that Foreman would have destroyed Dempsey...Louis...Marciano...Liston...etc.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:11 AM   #32
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

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So let me get this straight. Your suggesting that you thought Hearns had the 'Greatest' aura of invincibility yet you lambast Leonard even though leonard had already stopped hearns previously???

I dont get the logic

i understand you dont like the guy but your logic dont make 1 shred of sense
Did I not note the Hitman's meteroric progress? I thought I had spelled it out clearly. Who was Hearns in those days other than some skinny welterweight who made a career of drubbing tomato cans and a paper title with a mere 3 defenses?

I'm talking about a heavily muscled, nine pounds additional muscle, with enough fire power to instantly vaporize Duran who had just gone 15 vs Hagler with no difficulty

Leonard was respectable, not invincible. not even close
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:11 AM   #33
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

Olivares post Herrera! 69-1-1 with 65 KOs.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:53 AM   #34
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

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Out of the 3 you mentioned...George Foreman...he totally destroyed Joe Frazier...the man who beat Ali in 1971..(even though Joe left everything he had in the FOTC that night and was never the same...)...detroyed Ken Norton..who had beaten Ali in 1973...and broke his jaw...the press thought that Ali was making a HUGE mistake in fighting Foreman in 1974...that Ali was going to be KO'd...that his career was over after this fight...etc. We all know what happen in Zaire...after the Frazier fight in '73 they all said that Foreman would have destroyed Dempsey...Louis...Marciano...Liston...etc.
Yeah we all know that but this lasted for barely a year and a half ... he crushed Frazier in '73, demolished Norton in '74 and was KTFO by Ali in '74

It was like a a year and 9 months that he was considered invincible.

Liston is a little more tricky because we know that Foreman earned his reputation after the Frazier and Norton beatings. Liston was probably stated to be unbeatable around the Patterson fights or maybe even sooner ... he never got a title shot even though he had been deserving of one for a while ... and when he did he annihilated Patterson, and then he destroyed him again a year later ... and then the year after that, in '64, Ali tore down that cloak of invincibility.

Tyson was considered to be untouchable for nearly 5 years .... from about '86 to '90.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

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Did I not note the Hitman's meteroric progress? I thought I had spelled it out clearly. Who was Hearns in those days other than some skinny welterweight who made a career of drubbing tomato cans and a paper title with a mere 3 defenses?

I'm talking about a heavily muscled, nine pounds additional muscle, with enough fire power to instantly vaporize Duran who had just gone 15 vs Hagler with no difficulty

Leonard was respectable, not invincible. not even close
Im not arguing either way about whether SRL was invincible or not, its you who is going out of your way to dismiss him. I mean you even use the term 'not even close' yet, and with due respect to the great fighter Hearns was, Tommys campaign at lt-middle showed nothing to suggest 'invincibility' other than including 2 good wins over opponents that SRL had already beaten, as well as Tommy himself, yet tommy looks 'invincible and SRL is 'not even close'

Not to take away Tommys fine achievements but it looks like your judging them both to 2 different levels
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:35 PM   #36
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

Sullivan and Jeffries probably had the greatest aura of invincibility of any fighters in history.

The fact that there were fewer historic examples of supposedly invincible fighters getting beaten doubtless contributed.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:20 PM   #37
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

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Im not arguing either way about whether SRL was invincible or not, its you who is going out of your way to dismiss him. I mean you even use the term 'not even close' yet, and with due respect to the great fighter Hearns was, Tommys campaign at lt-middle showed nothing to suggest 'invincibility' other than including 2 good wins over opponents that SRL had already beaten, as well as Tommy himself, yet tommy looks 'invincible and SRL is 'not even close'

Not to take away Tommys fine achievements but it looks like your judging them both to 2 different levels
Well SORREE if I offended anyone! but that's reality. I've never once seen the word "invincible" linked with Leonard's name

competent. skilled, talented are the three qualities that come to mind

the way Sugar had beaten Duran (he reminded me of Pee Wee Herman in a hit N run contest) in no way compares with the manner in which Tommy had achieved the same feat

Look at the manner in which hagler achieved the same result. He was criticized widely while Tommy induced fear throughout the sport and even said Hagler was shaking like a leaf

I suppose u didnt manage to see any difference in Tommy's build, nor would it make any difference to u. U wouldnt acknowledge it anyways. "Muscles? what the hell are those good for?"

looks like you're just trying to downplay the obvious while doing your best to pump up Leonard. you're just doing it with the wrong fighter
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:41 PM   #38
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

Toney & RJJ.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:06 PM   #39
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

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Originally Posted by KidDynamite View Post
Yeah we all know that but this lasted for barely a year and a half ... he crushed Frazier in '73, demolished Norton in '74 and was KTFO by Ali in '74

It was like a a year and 9 months that he was considered invincible.

Liston is a little more tricky because we know that Foreman earned his reputation after the Frazier and Norton beatings. Liston was probably stated to be unbeatable around the Patterson fights or maybe even sooner ... he never got a title shot even though he had been deserving of one for a while ... and when he did he annihilated Patterson, and then he destroyed him again a year later ... and then the year after that, in '64, Ali tore down that cloak of invincibility.

Tyson was considered to be untouchable for nearly 5 years .... from about '86 to '90.
Liston was considered unbeatable a while before the Patterson fights, that's why Patterson was so scared Sonny had demolished every person in the heavyweight division so that there was nobody else but him left for Patterson to fight
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:11 PM   #40
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

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Joe Calzaghe
bad choice that...when he moved up to lacy / kessler territory he's was expected by many to lose
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:50 AM   #41
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

I think Benny leonard needs to be added to the list. Dempsey also got that title after the Firpo fight I belive. He was a big favorite going into the first Tunney fight, even with that 3 year lay off. So he had some aura around him.

Louis was other after he grab the title and rule with a iron fist.

I think number 1 should be Tyson, folllow by Foreman though. As a kid, seeing Tyson knock guys out in a round or 2, I didnt think he was ever going to lose. I didnt think he could be beating.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:53 AM   #42
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

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Liston was considered unbeatable a while before the Patterson fights, that's why Patterson was so scared Sonny had demolished every person in the heavyweight division so that there was nobody else but him left for Patterson to fight
Yeah, you're probably right. But I still doubt it was as long as a reign as Tyson's.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:58 AM   #43
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

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Yeah, you're probably right. But I still doubt it was as long as a reign as Tyson's.
I wouldn't say Tyson was thought to be unbeatable from his first professional fight it would of taken a little bit of time for him to be recognized as that, i would say it started around the 1986 mark or just pre to it so about 4-5 years, Listons in the way you look at it started 1956 but he had a 2 year break and really started around 1958 and went on until he met Ali in 1964 so 6 years, if you want to look at it from the Cleveland Williams fights as the start of his invincibility then it's 5 years although he was thought to be unbeatable before those 2 fights with Williams. The Williams fights just cemented him as being unbeatable even more
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:16 AM   #44
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Default Re: greatest aura of invincibility

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Liston pre Clay
Tyson pre Douglas

Out of those listed I would stick with the big boys and say Foreman post Frazier. Once the 0 goes the aura of invincibility is never the same.

Hearns and Hagler support was pretty evenly split leading into their fight so I doubt you could say Hearns had an aura of invincibility around him.
Hagler pre Duran was a bit like the Klits at present. An elite in an era that back then was percieved to be pretty average at the weight. I think that the fact that his greatest anticipated opponents came from lower weight classes suggest he was not considered to be unbeatable. There were only muted murmurings of him fighting the Qawi, Saad and EMMs rather than the hype of the Fab 4
Good call ,Liston was perceived as unbeatable.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:19 AM   #45
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Hard to go past Tyson. He beat guys at the staredown.
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