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Old 12-11-2012, 09:45 AM   #91
ardy
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Default Re: Barry McGuigan - I've had enough of you.

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Originally Posted by Olu G. Rotimi View Post
Yes we know what would have happened and frankly McGuigan's handlers the Eastwoods knew. Anyone who even thinks the outcome is debatable is deluded. Nelson destroyed much better than McGiggle. Nelson is q great and legendary your hero Barry is not.
Most boxing fans in Ireland and Britain back then must have been deluded it appears. Hero is a strong word, I'm not a ten year child so I tend not to have heros at this stage of my life, but I admire most if not all boxers, and McGuigan [ during his boxing days I hasten to add] more than most

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Originally Posted by Olu G. Rotimi View Post
Of course Nelson was feared back then ever since his performance as a last mnute substitute against the great Sanchez (may his perfect soul rest in peace). Nelson has honoured Sanchez's career and legend by going on to have the career he did. McGuigan and his handlers were not confident at all. Micky Duff a great friend of McGuigan's manager Barney Eastwood was in Azumah Nelson's corner for the Sanchez fight and pretty sure he advised Barney that Barry be kept away from Nelson. Barney Eastwood was also ringside when Azumah defended his WBC title against that fine Irish boxer Pat Cowdell and what he saw made up his mind when Nelson knocked Pat Cowdell unconscious with a left uppercut I in the 1st round. Only those not in the know could conceive of McGuigan winning. A friend of mine having neve seen Nelson in 1985 though surely McGuigan would win until he saw a fight of Nelson and said that Barry's style was made to order for Nelson.
Your first assertion was that McGuigan feared Nelson therefore didn't want to box him. As I said earlier I can't agree with that, a world champion boxer on top of his game [having defeated Laporte, Pedroza and Taylor] wouldn't fear anyone, and whether or not his management thought otherwise the last person they are going to tell that to is their boxer.

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I am agreeing with your points actually apart from one which is I don't believe McGuigan and his handlers thought he cold win back then because though the general public may not have known how good Nelson was the McGuigan certainly did. It gets on my tits when Barry says things like a particular fighter lacks intestinal fortitude etc when he sidestepped his career defining challenge. By contrast Marquez and Pacman fought each other four times to get a definite winner. Ricky Hatton is appreciated for not ducking Mayweather and Pacman. He may have lost but gained eternal respect.
As I said earlier the Cruz defeat was the chief reason for the fight not happening. Also many considered Cowdell to be weight weakened when he fought Nelson, given that he had been boxing at super-feather and also a lot of the newspapers thought Cowdell was going to defeat Nelson that night, so that 1rd blast out was a massive surprise.

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Originally Posted by BlackBrenny View Post
Barney Eastwood said he kept McGuigan away because Nelson would have killed him, I don't know many people around here who gave McGuigan much if any kind of a shot.

Michael, I suggest you read Eastwoods book, THAT is an eye opener

as for this "bringing people together" stuff...well i've said my piece on that myth more times than enough
I've read the book, and considering the bad blood between the two now, I expected Eastwood to say worse [ but I suppose he didn't want to face another day in court with McGuigan].
What is this myth that you refer to about McGuigan? what do you mean by people around here[the Brit forum, Belfast/Ireland ]? tell me more as you seem to have all the answers? And another question, who is Michael?

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Originally Posted by Strongback View Post
I'd take everything Barney Eastwood says with a pinch of salt.
Exaclty
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:35 PM   #92
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Most boxing fans in Ireland and Britain back then must have been deluded it appears. Hero is a strong word, I'm not a ten year child so I tend not to have heros at this stage of my life, but I admire most if not all boxers, and McGuigan [ during his boxing days I hasten to add] more than most


Your first assertion was that McGuigan feared Nelson therefore didn't want to box him. As I said earlier I can't agree with that, a world champion boxer on top of his game [having defeated Laporte, Pedroza and Taylor] wouldn't fear anyone, and whether or not his management thought otherwise the last person they are going to tell that to is their boxer.

As I said earlier the Cruz defeat was the chief reason for the fight not happening. Also many considered Cowdell to be weight weakened when he fought Nelson, given that he had been boxing at super-feather and also a lot of the newspapers thought Cowdell was going to defeat Nelson that night, so that 1rd blast out was a massive surprise.

I've read the book, and considering the bad blood between the two now, I expected Eastwood to say worse [ but I suppose he didn't want to face another day in court with McGuigan].
What is this myth that you refer to about McGuigan? what do you mean by people around here[the Brit forum, Belfast/Ireland ]? tell me more as you seem to have all the answers? And another question, who is Michael?

Exaclty
Ardy there a lot of issues I can take with your latest comments however lets be clear Azumah Nelson knocking out Pat Cowdell in 1 round was no surprise. Nelson was prepared to give Cowdell about 5 rounds before putting his lights however it was when Cowdell had the audacity to go toe to toe and stay in danger zone Azumah puts his lights out and that was all she wrote. As for Cowdell been weight weakened etc my view is that after every defeat there is an injury. Nelson would beat Cowdell evert day of the week that is not to say Cowdell is not a fine fighter he clearly was and one of the better ones not to win a world title.

McGuigan losing to Cruz was no fluke he got his arse canned period. Cruz was part of Dave Gorman's stable in Texas with Don Curry and was no mug. Please don't make excuses about the heat etc as great fighters overcome adversity.

You might admire Barry McGuigan which is good for you and him I just don't share these sentiments about his career. I think he is way overrated. I get sick of people who say it is shame he and Nelson never fought when the reality is McGuigan ducked Nelson period. I remember Nelson say that they could fight in McGuigan's bedroom and his wife could be the referee and judge but Barry would still get knocked out.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:17 PM   #93
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Ardy there a lot of issues I can take with your latest comments however lets be clear Azumah Nelson knocking out Pat Cowdell in 1 round was no surprise. Nelson was prepared to give Cowdell about 5 rounds before putting his lights however it was when Cowdell had the audacity to go toe to toe and stay in danger zone Azumah puts his lights out and that was all she wrote. As for Cowdell been weight weakened etc my view is that after every defeat there is an injury. Nelson would beat Cowdell evert day of the week that is not to say Cowdell is not a fine fighter he clearly was and one of the better ones not to win a world title.

McGuigan losing to Cruz was no fluke he got his arse canned period. Cruz was part of Dave Gorman's stable in Texas with Don Curry and was no mug. Please don't make excuses about the heat etc as great fighters overcome adversity.

You might admire Barry McGuigan which is good for you and him I just don't share these sentiments about his career. I think he is way overrated. I get sick of people who say it is shame he and Nelson never fought when the reality is McGuigan ducked Nelson period. I remember Nelson say that they could fight in McGuigan's bedroom and his wife could be the referee and judge but Barry would still get knocked out.
Your comments re: McGuigan-Cruz are totally laughable, you need to watch that fight again to remind yourself how close that fight was and precisely how clear the heat and exhaustion affected McGuigan. It is ridiculous for you to dismiss the effect of that open air venue in the middle of the day with blazing heat, and how it seriously affected McGuigan & his high pace pressure style. Cruz was a clear underdog for that fight. I have been reading some of your posts on this thread and it it is clear that you hero worship Nelson (that is not to dispute Nelson was a great fighter, because he was).
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:21 PM   #94
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Your comments re: McGuigan-Cruz are totally laughable, you need to watch that fight again to remind yourself how close that fight was and precisely how clear the heat and exhaustion affected McGuigan. It is ridiculous for you to dismiss the effect of that open air venue in the middle of the day with blazing heat, and how it seriously affected McGuigan & his high pace pressure style. Cruz was a clear underdog for that fight. I have been reading some of your posts on this thread and it it is clear that you hero worship Nelson (that is not to dispute Nelson was a great fighter, because he was).
Nelson is an all time great and is worthy of hero worship if that is the way you want to put it. McGuigan is not. Making excuses for McGuigan losing to Cruz is what I find laughable. 2 guys had the same adversity and Cruz won period. I hate it when people try to discredit the winners due victory. I watched the fight and Barry lost. Fighters lose. Deal with it.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:59 PM   #95
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Nelson is an all time great and is worthy of hero worship if that is the way you want to put it. McGuigan is not. Making excuses for McGuigan losing to Cruz is what I find laughable. 2 guys had the same adversity and Cruz won period. I hate it when people try to discredit the winners due victory. I watched the fight and Barry lost. Fighters lose. Deal with it.
Deal with it? Like I give a ****. Its just boxing discussion, you are the one blowing off Nelson and then dismissing anyone in this thread if they dare to counter your warped rants. You are full of shit.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:35 PM   #96
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Deal with it? Like I give a ****. Its just boxing discussion, you are the one blowing off Nelson and then dismissing anyone in this thread if they dare to counter your warped rants. You are full of shit.
If you don't give a **** then you should shut up about it.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:21 AM   #97
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Default Re: Barry McGuigan - I've had enough of you.

I don't want to weigh in on any points except heat exhaustion.
I'm Irish. I have white skin and I have suffered from heat exhaustion while abroad.
I suffered heat exhaustion hiking a mountain in venezuela. I have been to texas and never been able to stay out doors for more then 5 minutes (doing absolutely nothing). I have been to spain, South East Asia and Australia and suffered badly in the natural climate there. I am ok when I am in air conditioned rooms but not when outside. I do box white collar and I am very fit and was very fit when I was in Venezuela.
Also, If you look at other Irish sports teams, they are known for performing poorly in the heat.

I could give you examples like the Irish soccer team in Orlando USA world Cup 1994 who pleaded with FIFA officials to change the location during out door training sessions while trying to adjust.

If you don't think the southwestern desert heat effected McGuigan than I think you don't understand what is like to be a white skinned Irish man. Just saying.
Trust me, we don't adop well to it. There is a reason we get skin burned so easily.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:22 AM   #98
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Ps. McGuigan's camp should never have accepted those terms so I am not making excuses for them.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:40 AM   #99
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Default Re: Barry McGuigan - I've had enough of you.

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I don't want to weigh in on any points except heat exhaustion.
I'm Irish. I have white skin and I have suffered from heat exhaustion while abroad.
I suffered heat exhaustion hiking a mountain in venezuela. I have been to texas and never been able to stay out doors for more then 5 minutes (doing absolutely nothing). I have been to spain, South East Asia and Australia and suffered badly in the natural climate there. I am ok when I am in air conditioned rooms but not when outside. I do box white collar and I am very fit and was very fit when I was in Venezuela.
Also, If you look at other Irish sports teams, they are known for performing poorly in the heat.

I could give you examples like the Irish soccer team in Orlando USA world Cup 1994 who pleaded with FIFA officials to change the location during out door training sessions while trying to adjust.

If you don't think the southwestern desert heat effected McGuigan than I think you don't understand what is like to be a white skinned Irish man. Just saying.
Trust me, we don't adop well to it. There is a reason we get skin burned so easily.
Good post mate, very interesting, cheers!
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:26 PM   #100
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Default Re: Barry McGuigan - I've had enough of you.

my fav pundit on sky, hes quality so enthusiastic
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:32 AM   #101
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Default Re: Barry McGuigan - I've had enough of you.

I really don't want to carry on, on this specific thread because it might come across as if I hate McGuigan which I don't. I just believe he is grossly overrated and his accomplishments don't measure up with the standing some people want to give him. He is not a great fighter but he had the opportunity to be great but did not take the challenge head on. I have so much respect for Nigel Benn, Lloyd Honeyghan, Ricky Hatton, Lennox Lewis and Carl Froch. Whether you judge them to be great or not you cannot say they ducked anybody as shown by their resume's.
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