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Old 12-10-2012, 02:58 PM   #31
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I think that Jeffries was the only fighter in the world who could have beaten him that day.
I'm very iclined to agree.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:02 PM   #32
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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Where´s the problem? How many champs didn´t fight some chumps in between?
The problem is that Jeffries had 8 title defences and 3 of them were against men who did not warrant title shots.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:49 PM   #33
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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The problem is that Jeffries had 8 title defences and 3 of them were against men who did not warrant title shots.
Jeffries title reign effectivley breaks down into two components.

He won the title in June 99 and defended it three times up to the Corbett fight in May 00, when an injury to his left arm forced a period of inactivity and nearly ended his career.

He made his comeback in September 01 against Hank Griffin, and took two four round bouts against Griffin and Kennedy. These fights were to get him back into condition, and ready for a real test which came in the form of Gus Ruhlin. He then had a further three title defences, before the lack of credible white opponents forced him into retirment.

The Finnegan fight can be excused given his activity over that period. We can probably alow him a couple of warm up fights after his injury induced layoff. Munro by contrast clearly did get a prime time slot, and you can make what you will of that.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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Jeffries title reign effectivley breaks down into two components.

He won the title in June 99 and defended it three times up to the Corbett fight in May 00, when an injury to his left arm forced a period of inactivity and nearly ended his career.

He made his comeback in September 01 against Hank Griffin, and took two four round bouts against Griffin and Kennedy. These fights were to get him back into condition, and ready for a real test which came in the form of Gus Ruhlin. He then had a further three title defences, before the lack of credible white opponents forced him into retirment.

The Finnegan fight can be excused given his activity over that period. We can probably alow him a couple of warm up fights after his injury induced layoff. Munro by contrast clearly did get a prime time slot, and you can make what you will of that.
Though I think I've made my case regarding Munroe I didn't really have to, Jeffries himself made it for me.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:30 PM   #35
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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Though I think I've made my case regarding Munroe I didn't really have to, Jeffries himself made it for me.
Lets say that Jeffries alowed you to choose his opponent for the date of the Munro fight, but he refused to budge on the issue of the colour line.

What do you think is the best that could have been managed?
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:46 PM   #36
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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The problem is that Jeffries had 8 title defences and 3 of them were against men who did not warrant title shots.

So what? Jeffries was an active champion. Five of Jeffries title matches were vs. hall of fame fighters. And he gave re-matches. For the most part Jeffries fought the best as champion. Munroe got his title shot for him lasting 4 rounds in an exhibition match. Munroe was floored a few times , but his management lied to the press about scoring a knock down. That and beating a few past their prime names was good enough to get him a title match.


Outside of the people Jeffries had already beaten, few were better choices that Ruhlin in 1901. I am fine with this title match, because it avenged what some viewed as a questionable draw.


Just be honest Mcvey. It’s clear you have an ax to grind here. Pointing out that Munroe wasn’t a world beater is not going to change the fact that Jack Johnson as champion fought a few soft marks, and as champion avoided the 4-5 best challengers out there in. Grind away if you must.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:23 PM   #37
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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I was responding to the Dorgan quote about Johnson fighting small men.the facts are rather different.
BTW. Johnson, and Dorgan were close friends
To answer Appolack's premise that only Jeffries stopped Munroe , here is an account of the Munroe Johnson fight which shows, as I said that Johnson did not try to stop him.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
And old Peter Maher almost stopped him by mistake........!
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:02 PM   #38
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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So what? Jeffries was an active champion. Five of Jeffries title matches were vs. hall of fame fighters. And he gave re-matches. For the most part Jeffries fought the best as champion. Munroe got his title shot for him lasting 4 rounds in an exhibition match. Munroe was floored a few times , but his management lied to the press about scoring a knock down. That and beating a few past their prime names was good enough to get him a title match.


Outside of the people Jeffries had already beaten, few were better choices that Ruhlin in 1901. I am fine with this title match, because it avenged what some viewed as a questionable draw.


Just be honest Mcvey. It’s clear you have an ax to grind here. Pointing out that Munroe wasn’t a world beater is not going to change the fact that Jack Johnson as champion fought a few soft marks, and as champion avoided the 4-5 best challengers out there in. Grind away if you must.
You would have made a case if Jeffries had defended against Joe Grimm.
I could produce accounts of the Jeffries Munroe exhibition that state Munroe DID drop Jeffries but I don't believe he did ,it doesnt matter, he had no business participating in a world's title fight, and Jeffries not only knew it, he later admitted it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:19 AM   #39
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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The problem is that Jeffries had 8 title defences and 3 of them were against men who did not warrant title shots.
Why exactly is Joe Kennedy unworthy of a title shot?

while Frank Childs was?

Kennedy drew with Childs, drew twice with Griffin, and defeated Ruhlin, probably a bigger heavyweight name than anyone Childs defeated.

Kennedy was also about 6' 2" and 195 lbs, much bigger than Childs.

Joe Kennedy has better credentials than quite a few guys who got shots at the title over the years.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:35 AM   #40
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

"a lot of people did buy into the Munroe hype train"

A---Is Jeffries correct in saying there was a lot of public demand for this fight?

B---And if he is correct, does this justify the fight?

C---Was the boxing press for or against the Munroe fight?
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:52 AM   #41
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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"a lot of people did buy into the Munroe hype train"

A---Is Jeffries correct in saying there was a lot of public demand for this fight?

B---And if he is correct, does this justify the fight?

C---Was the boxing press for or against the Munroe fight?

If they bought into the hype they certainly didn't buy into the fight ,Jeffries lost a $1000 on it.
Sharkey ,and Fitz both stated the fight was a foregone conclusion.

You can dress it up anyway you want but Munroe did NOT earn a title shot.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:57 AM   #42
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
Why exactly is Joe Kennedy unworthy of a title shot?

while Frank Childs was?

Kennedy drew with Childs, drew twice with Griffin, and defeated Ruhlin, probably a bigger heavyweight name than anyone Childs defeated.

Kennedy was also about 6' 2" and 195 lbs, much bigger than Childs.

Joe Kennedy has better credentials than quite a few guys who got shots at the title over the years.
Kennedy was Jeffries sparring partner.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:19 PM   #43
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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And old Peter Maher almost stopped him by mistake........!
The old Maher could still hit. Maher's problem was a glass jaw, which Munore, who could hit exposed.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:48 PM   #44
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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The old Maher could still hit. Maher's problem was a glass jaw, which Munore, who could hit exposed.
When he fought MUNROE ,[not MUNORE ,] Maher had kod one man in the last 4 years ,Jim Jeffords who had a total of 43 fights, and was kod in 23 of them.

Maher's problem was a glass bottle ,full of booze ,which he was never far away from.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:16 PM   #45
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Default Re: Jeffries Admits Munroe Did Not Merit Title Chance

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Kennedy was Jeffries sparring partner.
That doesn't answer the question.

Very good fighters have served as sparring partners,

including Ali (and, by the way, Jeffries)

What makes Joe Kennedy an inferior contender? to guys like Griffin and Childs who were not able to beat him.

Last edited by edward morbius; 12-11-2012 at 07:49 PM.
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