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Old 12-12-2012, 08:04 PM   #16
ushvinder
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

I would have to agree with the consensus, jofre is the p4p great of the 1960's and he proved himself against world class opponents. Ricardo could have moved up and challenged humberto, carbajal or arbachov and truly test his abilites on a p4p level, but he cared more about protecting his zero. Jofre looks impressive based on the footage of him that I have seen so far.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:28 AM   #17
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

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No way is Lopez the superior hitter, despite his aesthetically pleasing K.Os. He was a fantastic puncher, but if he hit like a middle that unheralded Mongkol, admittedly nails, would not have taken the drubbing he did and still be alive.
Whislt the claim that he hits like a middle would be spurious, I'm not comfortable with this line of argument.

Fitzsimmons tee'd off on an undersized Jack Dempsey for round after round and whilst he destroyed any possibilitiy of offense in his opponent with his brutal punishment, Dempsey "walked through" shot after shot. Ketchel beat on Papke for ten rounds to net the KO.

Louis needed more than 12 to dispatch Simon and probably landed more power punches on Max than Lopez managed uopn Mongkol. Sometimes you just run into a guy that's so tough you can't put him away, no matter who you are.

Who are your top 3 "eastern" punchers?
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

Yes, I know all of this, was just seeing how Mendoza would respond as most of his post was utter tosh

That's an interesting question. They'd be Thai, I'm sure. For sheer devastating force I guess Khaosai, Saensak and Moon (Korean!)

I guess anyway, off the top of my head, for Japan maybe Hamada. Very interesting question, any thoughts of your own?

EDIT: SHITE!!!! Pacquiao deserves a shout!!! Villaflor as well I guess, depending on whether you count Hawaii as 'eastern' or not. Tua is more 'Oceana' than Asian, although admittedly you said 'Eastern', so he'd be an acceptable shout.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:40 AM   #19
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

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When I get round to it I'll share some footage I doubt many of you will have seen. Have meant to for a while but not got round to it.
The Saldivar fight by any chance?
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:56 AM   #20
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

I wish! Nah, it's the Aoki fight, more of it than Vic has and the knockdowns/stoppage
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:56 AM   #21
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

I'm thinking of doing a composite punchers list but really going for it. I was just wandering if there was anyone from your erea I thought I shoud look at.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:10 AM   #22
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

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I'm thinking of doing a composite punchers list but really going for it. I was just wandering if there was anyone from your erea I thought I shoud look at.
As you know, the rounded Oriental punchers are more accumulative hitters, the bangers more awkward and cumbersome freaks.

No Joe Louis or JMM's that I can think of OOH OOH Shozo Saijo?
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:54 AM   #23
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
No way is Lopez the superior hitter, despite his aesthetically pleasing K.Os. He was a fantastic puncher, but if he hit like a middle that unheralded Mongkol, admittedly nails, would not have taken the drubbing he did and still be alive.

Also, Jofre beat a lot of good featherweights. Look at the difference in weight scaled between the two. Lopez could've moved up and somehow sparked Arbachakov inside a round and would still be a bit behind Jofre.

One could say if Jorfe hit harder, then maybe Fighting Harda would have respected him a bit more. I disagree, in a pound for pound sense, Lopez hit harder. However, I can change my opinion If you have rare Jorfe footage, post it here. There is a DVD from Brazil on Jorfe that has some clips seldom seen in North America.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:01 AM   #24
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

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As you know, the rounded Oriental punchers are more accumulative hitters, the bangers more awkward and cumbersome freaks.
No Joe Louis or JMM's that I can think of
Pichit's awe-inspiring combinations make R.Lopez look like Mayorga.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:27 AM   #25
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

Pichit Sithbangprachan is a good shout actually
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:29 AM   #26
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

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One could say if Jorfe hit harder, then maybe Fighting Harda would have respected him a bit more. I disagree, in a pound for pound sense, Lopez hit harder. However, I can change my opinion If you have rare Jorfe footage, post it here. There is a DVD from Brazil on Jorfe that has some clips seldom seen in North America.
I will be sharing it with some people, cannot make it public. It's not on that DVD, most of the fight clips from that have been posted by Vic already

Harada was f'n nails, what is your point? Medel, another terrific puncher, couldn't dissuade him even when he was beating the shit out of him.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:46 AM   #27
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

Watanabe and Gushiken were excellent composite punchers, certainly on Marquez' level(they could actually punch effectively on the front foot too for one thing)though both like the Mexican tended to neglect a complete\ point scoring jab.

Ohba too.Not quite as strong on the hooks, but better with the straight punches.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:14 PM   #28
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

Gushiken is a good shout I didn't think of

I pushed Watanabe aside out of sheer bias and not wanting to give him much credit.

Ohba? Well, I guess you've touched on why I didn't consider him. Could get a bit ragged in full flow (as could Saijo admittedly, still take him for general form even if Ohba had the better jab and was the all-round better fighter)
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:18 PM   #29
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

Oh, shit.

Mr. McGrain terribly sorry. I seem to have forgotten the most offensively gifted Oriental fighter of all time. The lad in my avatar; Samart Payakaroon.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:50 PM   #30
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Default Re: More skilled: Eder Jofre or Ricardo Lopez

Jofre for me. Alan Rudkin jr gave me some footage of one of his losses to Harada, can't remember which one now, and it's insane, he is getting unloaded on heavily by Harada with punches in bunches and then all of a sudden he turns his man and starts to shellack him from unheard of angles with uppercuts and overhand rights, like inverted bolo punches, shit loads of them.

I'm probably not going to follow the pattern on here of saying it's not close, because that's not the case, if all things skillset are considered then Lopez clearly makes his case. His footwork, jab, and precision comes under the skill banner in a massively favourable way for him imo, but the skills I associate more so with this question are similar to those owned by Duran, that ability to shorten the distance and extend it within what are more or less the same motions and landing combinations of technically sound power punches all the while, those skills make Jofre one of the best skilled fighters of all time.

It is close in many aspects of the argument, and in some of them, Lopez may emerge the slight victor, but where it is not close is in the ability to implement and utilise skill up close, and Jofre was devastating there, and beautiful, no homo
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