Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

[irishny]

So are we agreed that Collins calling out Jones in 99, 2 years after Collins had retired as a SMW was not a duck?

[Joe.Boxer]

Originally Posted by irishny

So are we agreed that Collins calling out Jones in 99, 2 years after Collins had retired as a SMW was not a duck?

Jones had already ducked/dismissed Collins in late 96. The stuff in 99 was more about a still-sizzling Calzaghe vs Collins matchup, until Collins collapsed in sparring. Jones showed how little interest he had in hyping a Collins matchup when he practically ignored him in that post-fight interview.

[Loudon]

[quote=general zod;14390640]

Jones always did what he wanted to do whether Levin agreed or not. It's the reason why Levin would walk out on him back in 00

Again I respect your opinion, but Roy was very close to Fred and Stan when he was younger, and I've heard Stan say that he didn't want to deal with King. I've also read that Fred didn't want to deal with him either.

Jones needed to make the Tito fight because his contract had been cancelled by HBO after his lacklustre performance against Tarver. From that point onwards it was Jones's opponents who decided if Jones's fights would get picked up by the network

That's right, Roy has used Don when it's suited him, but he's always being wary of him.

When he was 26 in 1995, and he was with the Levin's, he had lots of options. If they couldn't or didn't want to deal with King, they had other places to go, like 175. Roy didn't need him as much back then.

In 2007/2008 he needed King to put him back in the spotlight. He wanted Joe or a Hopkins rematch, and he used King.

Part of the reason Jones relinquished the WBA title was to get out from underneath King's control. In his contract for the Ruiz bout, Jones would have to have King as his promoter as long as he defended the title.

This is just an opinion. Roy hoped to stay at heavy. Murad tried to get him other fights, while Tarver was baiting him at every opportunity. We know Murad tried to get him fights with Holy, Tyson and Lewis. I don't know if Roy could have defended his belt against those challengers, because I don't know what the WBA rankings were. What were the details of the King contract?

Was it for a WBA defence, or was it if he fought anyone at all at heavy? I'm sure Roy would have been happy to use Don again, as long as it was in his own best interests. Murad says he made Roy $17M for Ruiz in total.


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Jones has said a lot of thing over the years. Like I said before I tend to take a lot of what Jones says "with a pinch of salt.

Once again, I respect your opinion, but it's good enough for me.

I'm not really sure where you're going with this?

I've never said that Roy never wanted to deal with Don.

What I said is, when he was with Fred and Stan in the mid 90's, they didn't want to deal with Don.

Levin said he would not turn Jones over to King to meet anyone in the promoter's stable of 168-pounders, starting with the opponent who makes the most sense, Nigel Benn of England, but also including WBA champion Frankie Liles.

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Like I say, Roy was 26 back then, with a big future still ahead of him, and he was very close to the Levin's at that point of his career.

He was 34 for Ruiz, at a different stage of his life, with a different advisor/promoter in Murad Muhammad, although Fred was still in the background.

He was 39 when he fought Tito, and he was looking for a way back to the big time.

Roy has always been wary of Don, but when it's been beneficial to him, then he's worked with him.


You asked me the question, if Roy didn't want to deal with King in 1995, then why was he willing to in 2001, and why did he in 2003 and 2007/2008?

The best answer I can give, is that they all came at different stages in Roy's career. He was older, with other people around him like Brad Jacobs, then Murad, and each time he dealt with Don, his circumstances were completely different.


Regards, Loudon.

[Loudon]

Originally Posted by banny

Defo, I have learnt a lot from General and your good self about boxing in general has made me really appreciate some of the special fighters we have had over in rich history of boxing. I doth my cap to you both

Thanks mate!

[Loudon]

This article has a few interesting things in it.

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[irishny]

Originally Posted by Loudon

This article has a few interesting things in it.

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Good article

[Loudon]

Originally Posted by irishny

Good article

Yes, especially the part about DM.

This article and the great links that Zod has provided on the subject, are good enough for me, that DM didn't want to fight Roy.

[BatTheMan]

Originally Posted by Loudon

Yes, especially the part about DM.

This article and the great links that Zod has provided on the subject, are good enough for me, that DM didn't want to fight Roy.

It is enough. If you happen to be stupid enough to believe that DM wanted all the income from the fight for himself.

Too fucking funny.

And Jones wanted 12M to fight DM BTW. A completely ridiculous sum that would only have been available to him if he fought Tyson. Some could argue that craving such an exorbitant amount of money is the same as saying: I don't want none.

[VivaNazVegas]

Originally Posted by BatTheMan

It is enough. If you happen to be stupid enough to believe that DM wanted all the income from the fight for himself.

Too fucking funny.

And Jones wanted 12M to fight DM BTW. A completely ridiculous sum that would only have been available to him if he fought Tyson. Some could argue that craving such an exorbitant amount of money is the same as saying: I don't want none.

DM ducked Roy

[SouthpawJab]

Originally Posted by knockout artist

Jones was never a superstar, as shown by his poor PPV figures

Jones was doing numbers similar to Mayweather pre-DLH....He never had that proven superstar to fight to elevate him. He did 600K against John Ruiz, a relative no name, but he was a much larger man. If Roy had gotten the Tyson fight, he would've been an enormous draw.

Add into that, he was a terrific gate draw. People would pay to see him in person, but would only pay if they thought it would be competitive.

[general zod]

Originally Posted by Loudon

This is just an opinion.

It was the same condition that Evander was offered if he wanted to fight Jones.
Hence:

Then negotiations for Jones Holyfield went down the drain because King demanded options on all of Holyfield's championship fights should he beat Jones and presented Evander with a dollar amount that the Holyfield camp considered insulting.

More specifically, Jim Thomas (Holyfield's attorney), says, "Under the final offer that Don gave us, Evander would have made $8,000,000, and $36,000,000 would have been divided between Roy Jones and Don King."

Holyfield elaborates, saying, "I want to fight for the title, but I don't want anyone abuse to me. I shouldn't have to sign a longterm contract with Don King just to fight for the title. I went through that one time, and I don't want to put myself in that situation again. I don't want to deal with Don King anymore. I don't want anything to do with him. I won't give options to Don King."

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Originally Posted by Loudon

Roy hoped to stay at heavy. Murad tried to get him other fights, while Tarver was baiting him at every opportunity. We know Murad tried to get him fights with Holy, Tyson and Lewis.

You should take what Murad says with a pinch of salt

Holyfield was not going to accept those terms
Lewis had his own problems with Vitali and the WBC
Tyson refused to work with King in any shape or form

Originally Posted by Loudon

I don't know if Roy could have defended his belt against those challengers, because I don't know what the WBA rankings were. What were the details of the King contract?

As it stated Jones had to keep King as a promoter as long as he defended the wba hw belt

The WBA wanted Jones to defend against his mandatory challenger which at the time was Vitali. K

Originally Posted by Loudon

Was it for a WBA defence, or was it if he fought anyone at all at heavy? I'm sure Roy would have been happy to use Don again, as long as it was in his own best interests. Murad says he made Roy $17M for Ruiz in total.

Why did King end of promoting Tarver-Jones II?

[Loudon]

Originally Posted by BatTheMan;14391179[QUOTE

]It is enough. If you happen to be stupid enough to believe that DM wanted all the income from the fight for himself.

Bat, you can believe whatever you want to believe. We've been through this a thousand times.

Look at Zod's links from post 78 of this thread.

Read them carefully, then look at DM'S resume. It's crystal clear to me, that Kohl and DM didn not want that fight.

Too fucking funny.

It's funny, you trying to make a case that he wanted it, when Kohl wouldn't negotiate, arrange a double header, and then had DM fight Hall twice and Harmon, after Roy had toyed with them.

And Jones wanted 12M to fight DM BTW. A completely ridiculous sum that would only have been available to him if he fought Tyson. Some could argue that craving such an exorbitant amount of money is the same as saying: I don't want none.

Read the above paragraph from the full interview, just before Roy said that. He was clearly frustrated and knew they wouldn't pay him that amount. Go and read the full interview, and then decide for yourself. He had no intentions of going to Germany, and he wasn't stupid, he knew they weren't going to pay him that. It was clearly said in a frustrated tone, out of anger, because nothing was happening at the time. Everybody wanted the fight, and Kohl wouldn't even start the ball rolling with an offer.

I'll put the interview back up if you want.


Regards, Loudon.

[general zod]

Originally Posted by Loudon

What I said is, when he was with Fred and Stan in the mid 90's, they didn't want to deal with Don.

Do you know how Jones treated Levin over the Collins fiasco back in 99?

[Loudon]

[quote=general zod;14391246]

It was the same condition that Evander was offered if he wanted to fight Jones.

That's fine. It wasn't in Holy's best interests at the time, and he too was wary of Don, just like Roy and everybody that ever worked with him was.

You should take what Murad says with a pinch of salt

Holyfield was not going to accept those terms
Lewis had his own problems with Vitali and the WBC
Tyson refused to work with King in any shape or form

That doesn't mean that Murad didn't try to make the fights, and Roy wasn't serious about wanting to fight them. Alton Merkerson says that Roy left his Ruiz weight on in the hope of getting Tyson. In the links I've given, you've got details of Roy and Mike talking to each other. Lewis sounded more than up for the fight, that were apparent in your links that you once posted before he fought Vitali.

As it stated Jones had to keep King as a promoter as long as he defended the wba hw belt

I understand that. But if Murad could have made the Tyson fight and the others, would Roy have defended the belt against those guys? Would the WBA have been happy with that? and what would King's involvment have been?

The writer of that article is implying that Roy dropped the belt to evade working with Don. But like I say, he wanted other fights at heavy, and I think he'd have worked with Don if it'd have been in his best interests, just like he did in 2007 and 2008. So I don't agree with the writer of the article. I also don't agree that he ran back to 175, when he found out Vitali was his mandatory.

Why did King end of promoting Tarver-Jones II?

Tell me.

[Loudon]

Originally Posted by general zod

Do you know how Jones treated Levin over the Collins fiasco back in 99?

Tell me what happened in detail, if you don't mind.

It still doesn't change the fact that in 95, he was close to them, respected them, and listened to what they said. My only point, was that both Fred and Stan, didn't want to deal with King back then. That's all I was saying.

Also in the previous link that I posted, Fred was in the backgroung working with Murad for the Ruiz fight. So he worked with Fred four years after what happened with him or his brother in 1999.


Regards, Loudon.