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Old 12-13-2012, 11:50 AM   #451
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Loudon, would you agree with KOartist that Wlad fought a technical masterpiece against Wach?. Dont want to drag you into the argument, but to me, thats a crazy statment.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:08 PM   #452
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
Loudon, would you agree with KOartist that Wlad fought a technical masterpiece against Wach?. Dont want to drag you into the argument, but to me, thats a crazy statment.
Hi mate,

I haven't seen the fight. I've never got around to watching it, I only read the reports.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:21 PM   #453
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
Hi mate,

I haven't seen the fight. I've never got around to watching it, I only read the reports.
I wouldn't say he ever fought a masterclass in boxing. You're a big fan of Toney, Toney's fight against against Barkley was a masterclass in boxing. There has to be too great fighters in the ring to get that accolade imo.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:28 PM   #454
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by SouthpawJab View Post
Jones was doing numbers similar to Mayweather pre-DLH....He never had that proven superstar to fight to elevate him. He did 600K against John Ruiz, a relative no name, but he was a much larger man. If Roy had gotten the Tyson fight, he would've been an enormous draw.

Add into that, he was a terrific gate draw. People would pay to see him in person, but would only pay if they thought it would be competitive.


Still, Jones never crossed over for some reason. He had his rap career but that was hit and miss, he had great skills and an exciting style, but he never seemed to generate the popularity and publicity like Mayweather, Tyson, Pacquiao or ODLH. He wasn't a superstar.

Though it's a good point he never had an ODLH or a Mike Tyson to make a name off


Quote:
Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
I wouldn't say he ever fought a masterclass in boxing. You're a big fan of Toney, Toney's fight against against Barkley was a masterclass in boxing. There has to be too great fighters in the ring to get that accolade imo.

You said Ward-Dawson was a masterpiece - you consider that version of Dawson who killed himself to make 168 a great fighter? Also Iran Barkley was NOT a great fighter!

An example of a masterclass between great fighters would be Thomas Hearns-Wilfred Benitez
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:36 PM   #455
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
I wouldn't say he ever fought a masterclass in boxing. You're a big fan of Toney, Toney's fight against against Barkley was a masterclass in boxing. There has to be too great fighters in the ring to get that accolade imo.
I love watching that fight. A classic clash of styles. Toney looked amazing that night. He was 23/24 and in fantastic shape. I wish he'd have been more dedicated.

I think Roy's fight with Toney was a masterclass, but you've got the whole weight issue.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:43 PM   #456
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Still, Jones never crossed over for some reason. He had his rap career but that was hit and miss, he had great skills and an exciting style, but he never seemed to generate the popularity and publicity like Mayweather, Tyson, Pacquiao or ODLH. He wasn't a superstar.

Though it's a good point he never had an ODLH or a Mike Tyson to make a name off





You said Ward-Dawson was a masterpiece - you consider that version of Dawson who killed himself to make 168 a great fighter? Also Iran Barkley was NOT a great fighter!

An example of a masterclass between great fighters would be Thomas Hearns-Wilfred Benitez
But Wach is?
I said Wards performance was a technical masterpiece. It was a fighter appliying all of his trade to the best of his ability. A showcase of pure boxing skill. Wlad jabbed Wach for 12 rounds and when he felt safe he threw a right hand. Do into the classic and declare that fight a boxing masterclass. You'd be laughed off the forum.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:49 PM   #457
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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But Wach is?
I said Wards performance was a technical masterpiece. It was a fighter appliying all of his trade to the best of his ability. A showcase of pure boxing skill. Wlad jabbed Wach for 12 rounds and when he felt safe he threw a right hand. Do into the classic and declare that fight a boxing masterclass. You'd be laughed off the forum.

You stated Ward Dawson was a masterclass, then you said a masterclass has to be between two great fighters. Dawson isn't a great fighter, and at 168 Dawson is terrible! Completely drained!

Make your mind up!

And Wlad threw plenty of right hands against Wach!!
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:51 PM   #458
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
How many more times?

Lou De Bella and HBO, DID NOT want to make the Collins fight at that point.
Where have they said that?
Quote:
Collins had been inactive, and he wasn't a mandatory etc.
So do you think as Collins wasnt mandatory, he wouldnt have been a better challenge than R Frazier
Quote:
Roy had 2 belts at 175 at the time, and HBO wanted Roy to fight Reggie Johnson
Who wasnt a mandatory either
Quote:
(who'd beaten Collins) to UNIFY the division instead of facing Collins.
so because Collins lost by close debateable decision 2 divisions lower, that holds weight with you , You obviously havent seen the fight
Quote:
That's what ended up happening. HBO dismissed Collins and then made the fight with Reggie.
Think that was Jones dismissing that challenge. Once again, thats video evidence for you Loudon, whilst you make assumptions
Quote:
Roy fought Reggie in his very next fight after Frazier.

Reggie was the bigger fight.
How was R Johnson, title or not a bigger fight, than a fighter who went to SMW and never lost and had beaten Eubank and Benn?
Quote:

Roy wasn't going to pass up the opportunity to unify the division, to fight a guy who'd been retired and who didn't even fight at that weight.
Did he challenge Michalczewski? NO NO NO
Quote:
Hopkins priced himself out of a rematch (which you have agreed on, in a previous thread.)
I agree, Hopkins didnt want to face Jones then
Quote:
You can go to post 78 of this thread, and you can read up on the difficulty of making the DM fight.
Just show me it
Quote:
Also, in January 2000, Roy fought David Telesco
Which wasnt a much fight. Point is, the 2 biggest challenges for Jones on offer there and Roy didnt take those 2 when on offer
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:51 PM   #459
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
I love watching that fight. A classic clash of styles. Toney looked amazing that night. He was 23/24 and in fantastic shape. I wish he'd have been more dedicated.

I think Roy's fight with Toney was a masterclass, but you've got the whole weight issue.
Not many people make an issue about the weight. I was never even aware of it till the haters called it. Its still reguarded as a classic fight. Hop/Pavlik is another fight that was an example of pure boxing materclass. He has to be trolling me with Wlad/Wach!
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:53 PM   #460
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

[quote=bailey;14391764]
Quote:
Where have they said that?
So do you think as Collins wasnt mandatory, he wouldnt have been a better challenge than R Frazier
Who wasnt a mandatory either
so because Collins lost by close debateable decision 2 divisions lower, that holds weight with you , You obviously havent seen the fight
Think that was Jones dismissing that challenge. Once again, thats video evidence for you Loudon, whilst you make assumptions
How was R Johnson, title or not a bigger fight, than a fighter who went to SMW and never lost and had beaten Eubank and Benn?
Did he challenge Michalczewski? NO NO NO
I agree, Hopkins didnt want to face Jones then
Just show me it
Which wasnt a much fight. Point is, the 2 biggest challenges for Jones on offer there and Roy didnt take those 2 when on offer
Dude, it's obvious DM ducked Roy
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:54 PM   #461
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
You stated Ward Dawson was a masterclass, then you said a masterclass has to be between two great fighters. Dawson isn't a great fighter, and at 168 Dawson is terrible! Completely drained!

Make your mind up!

And Wlad threw plenty of right hands against Wach!!
The post is there. Go back and look at it. Dawson obliterate's Wach in terms of skill and accomplishments. Wlad has never and will never put on a masterclass in boxing.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:55 PM   #462
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
How stupid are you?

Merchant said he was now willing to go to America.

Let me ask you this question.

Did he go in the end?
Did Jones agree to face him. As Merchant said, he is willing to go to America to fight Jones and when that was said, as video evidence showed, Roy didnt want to answer
Quote:
NO! Did he ****! Is the answer.
Did Jones challenge the champ and call him out?
No1 Did he f#ck! is the answer

Quote:
Post 78, it's all there.

Kohl refused a double header to promote the fight, which was ridiculous, and Brad Jacobs and HBO could never get Kohl on the phone, in a meeting, or to get the ball rolling.
Show me the proof. It didnt need a double header, the fight didnt need building. Roy would have been challenging the champ!
Quote:
After you've read the links, go and pull DM's resume up after talks had broken down. Go and look at who he fought. It's as clear as day, that DM didn't want the fight
Not sure how you get that. DM challenged the champ, Jones didnt. DMs LHW resume is of a similar level to Jones, and DM fought who Roy wouldnt, the winner of Nunn, Rocchigiani
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:57 PM   #463
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
The post is there. Go back and look at it. Dawson obliterate's Wach in terms of skill and accomplishments. Wlad has never and will never put on a masterclass in boxing.
Dawson is nothing at 168 - hence why Miranda KO'd him in sparring a week before he fought Ward!

You have an agenda against Wlad and it's clouding your judgement
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:00 PM   #464
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
Not many people make an issue about the weight. I was never even aware of it till the haters called it. Its still reguarded as a classic fight. Hop/Pavlik is another fight that was an example of pure boxing materclass. He has to be trolling me with Wlad/Wach!
Dino,

Zod's got some great links from the book, Dark Trade. There's loads of really interesting info in it regarding Roy's fight with James.

If you're interested, I'll try and get you the links.

Last edited by Loudon; 12-13-2012 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:01 PM   #465
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Dawson is nothing at 168 - hence why Miranda KO'd him in sparring a week before he fought Ward!

You have an agenda against Wlad and it's clouding your judgement
Wach is nothing fullstop. You're changing the agrument after you got floored. Wlad v Wach a masterpiece hahahahaha. You're done, counted out. I cant go on with this foolishness anymore.
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