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Old 12-14-2012, 09:40 AM   #31
JohnnyDrama99
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Default Re: I'll explain in DETAILS why PAC would never beat JMM

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Originally Posted by jan_fan View Post
First of all, JMM deserves a full-credit of beating Pac and it's all in their 4 fights TBH.

Pac won IMO in the 1st fight based on points only, but tactically JMM beat him as well in there.

Second, I couldn't believe how alot of fans aren't seeing what's actually happening in all their fights. They keep saying "Pac walks on straight lines and has no head movement" (less significant) , "JMM is just faster and stronger" (hilarious), "JMM was countering an aggressive Pac" (too broad), "Pac was not in condition or JMM was on PEDs" (too far), or some would even say "Pac changed his religion that's why" (lol not connected already)

I'm saying this now cause I don't think there's any hope that Pac (including his team and his fans) would realize this and I'm starting to accept that JMM is a better man but let me say some few words now before I concede.

Here's why JMM would always beat Pac, tactically:

1.) JMM's Right Hand

Watch all 4 fights, you'll see that it has always been JMM best weapon against Pac, nothing else. Not his lead uppercut, not his left hook to the body but his right hand. And Pac is always stepping into JMM's right, his perfect bait on him.

Why it happens always?

Pac always move to JMM's right. He's trying to look for a perfect shot on JMM. He wants a good picture to throw his left hand but it's not gonna happen cause JMM knows it. JMM can throw his overhand right and hit Pac before Pac can even think of throwing his left cause Pac is initiating and all JMM needed to do is to wait when Pac steps in. Pac's not realizing that JMM is 2 steps ahead on him cause Pac needs to plant his feet first before he lounges and all JMM need to do is throw his right. In fact, JMM can still do a step-in himself and throw his right before Pac can even start to lounge. That's how it makes JMM look faster and sharper. But it's not, it's a proper technique Pac never had any answer, nonetheless.

2.) The Clockwise Movement

If you want to know the reason why Pac always move to the Marquez bait, this is the thing. JMM was never scared of Pac, but his left has always intimidated him. In fact, this was the whole story of the tactic - TO NULLIFY PAC'S LEFT AT ALL COST. Now this is easier said than done. Many tried to nullify Pac's left, his left always landed. But in JMM, it was a different story. JMM never gives Pac a chance to have a good look for his left. He goes at a side-view stance making lesser angle for Pac's left to land. JMM makes it even worse by stepping his right foot backwards constantly making it a clockwise movement. The genius Pac follows JMM clockwise trying to land jackpot on his left. This is the main reason why Pac looks too WIDE to throw his straight LEFT on JMM. What's next comes JMM's flavored punches of the series which are the RIGHT overhand, RIGHT cross, RIGHT straight and RIGHT hook across the body. Perfect punches when Pac moves to JMM's RIGHT side. What's more funny is that Pac has constantly been getting hit by JMM's RIGHT, he knows JMM has been doing this all night long to him but after 4 fights, he still had no idea how or why it happened?

How the KO happened?

Pac has been following JMM's lure on all four fights. JMM has been landing his RIGHTS on him at his WILL and what does he need to KO Pac? - his POWER (C'mon this is no PED excuse anymore). Those two KD's, everybody should know those are powerful RIGHTS that hit Pac, there are no exceptions even Pac will go down with that. JMM already knew he's been landing at his will on Pac. All he needed to do was develop his POWER to really hurt Pac and just look for perfect timings, which is easy for JMM's part especially when he knew Pac was just gonna blindly deliver himself to JMM's right side.

Why Manny never learn?

For me, it's mainly because of his PRIDE. He doesn't accept that JMM has always had his numbers and that he's tactically losing to JMM all the time. By not accepting defeat, he's clearly not learning the mistakes he kept on repeating on his previous fights with JMM.

What Manny SHOULD have done?

It's just basic ----MOVE TO THE RIGHT----

When I say right, I mean for Pac's right side. When he does that, he's going towards JMM's left side which means he'll be moving COUNTER-CLOCKWISE and defy JMM's clockwise movement. In that way, he completely destroys his angle for his left hand, but on the bright side, he creates a better angle for his right hand to land. This time, Pac would have made it easier for him to land his RIGHT hook to the body, RIGHT hook across the head and also a JAB which Manny rarely used but quite effective on this approach. What even makes it better for him is that JMM will have a bad angle to throw his RIGHT hand on him (try to demonstrate it with a friend let him move to your left side let's how you do when you throw your right hand on him). JMM's lead uppercut would also get nullified when Pac's on his left side. The only thing that's left is JMM's left hook to the body which would also get nullified when Pac comes closer.

In this scenario, JMM would have had more difficult time to land especially his right hand to Pac and JMM would need to adjust.

Would JMM abandon his side-view stance? Let's see it happen

Would JMM still force his right hand to land on Pac?
Remember that when he moves counter-clockwise, he'll be moving himself nearer to Pac's addicted left hand. All Pac needs to do is be the Pac that he is and throw the straight left on JMM and we'll see a reversed position on the two. Pac, on that time, will have the upper hand as JMM steps to his left side.

Will JMM start to use his jab more frequently?
Really guys, JMM doesn't use this type of punch in the series of their fights. And by not jabbing, JMM was actually nullifying Pac to move to JMM's left side, forcing Pac to just move to his side (clockwise movement). I don't know if it was intentional for his part, but JMM actually gets the credit by not doing that.

What type of adjustments would JMM have had if Pac moves to the opposite side?
That I would like to see as well. The one thing I can assure you guys is that we will have a completely different picture of the fight when that happens.

Can Pac beat JMM? Yes, he can. But defenitely not with the way he fought JMM in their last 4 fights. Cause I can assure JMM will keep on beating him the same way. Just a little adjustment on his gameplan and you'll see adifferent picture of the fight.

Let Marquez Adjust - Pac has been solving the puzzle on all their 4 fights. JMM only used one tactic but Pac never resolved it. Now let's see Marquez adjust and see how he would handle it.

Lastly, I'm just a regular boxing fan like a lot of you guys in here so I'm not pretending to be an expert analyst or something. I'm just saying it's Pac's corner-men's job to analyze this and find a way for this stuff. They should know better than me so they should be held responsible (including Pac) for the output that happened in all those fights.

The rest I leave to you guys. I just made my point on this. That's all
I appreciate your efforts in explaining your opinion on this topic. Forgive me......but it sounds like you have never boxed before. Am I correct?

You make some valid observation regarding some of the strategic and technical game plan for Juan, but failed to do so with Manny.

Hear me out. Manny is not a typical southpaw. He's a very unorthodox kind of fighter who's style is very difficult to time, counter or anticipate.

Just taking the 4th fight we could see that Juan had a lot of trouble catching Manny aside from a few very sharp, flush counters. Juan's connect percentage against Manny has always been a lot lower than his connect percentage against almost everyone else.

The fact that Pac was landing his power punches more frequently and inflicting more damage speaks to just how difficult it is to fight a guy with the qualities Manny has in hid bag of tricks.

To say Juan will always best Manny is an opinion.....not based on anything of real substance, but based on your understanding of the sport and these two rivals.

Reality is, both men have certain attributes that cause the other a lot of problems when facing each other. Juan deserves all the credit in the world for that incredible Knock Out of his biggest nemesis. It wasn't luck....it was a combination of skill and opportunity. An opportunity that presented itself off the mistake of his opponent.

Truth is, Pac was doing extemely well in fighting his fight. He was controlling the tempo of the fight, pressing the action. Manny was punishing Juan with his left for the better part of 17 minutes, almost 18 and even though that one punch Juan landed put an end to the fight....the punches that Manny landed over the course of 6 rounds did the most damage.

Juan can best Pac, as shown last weekend. But Manny has been able to beat Marquez and even in his loss proved your opinion to be flawed.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:40 AM   #32
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Default Re: I'll explain in DETAILS why PAC would never beat JMM

Brilliant post - ESB needs more balanced posts. Let's give JMM credit for the KO but let's be frank in analysing the fight and tactical approach of both.

As has been brilliantly pointed out above, Pacquiao was giving Marquez more trouble than he was receiving and tactically speaking, for all that Marquez has over Pacquiao at times, Pacquiao was winning the tactical war on Saturday
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:09 AM   #33
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Default Re: I'll explain in DETAILS why PAC would never beat JMM

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Originally Posted by Bald_Toad View Post
beat him twice already


Three times arguably. But I'll give JMM his credit for the most definitive spectacular victory. Honestly because of the styles these guys were and always will be an even match.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:11 AM   #34
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Default Re: I'll explain in DETAILS why PAC would never beat JMM

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Originally Posted by Miguel View Post
Brilliant post - ESB needs more balanced posts. Let's give JMM credit for the KO but let's be frank in analysing the fight and tactical approach of both.

As has been brilliantly pointed out above, Pacquiao was giving Marquez more trouble than he was receiving and tactically speaking, for all that Marquez has over Pacquiao at times, Pacquiao was winning the tactical war on Saturday
I appreciate your response Miguel. Good post.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:00 PM   #35
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Default Re: I'll explain in DETAILS why PAC would never beat JMM

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Originally Posted by jan_fan View Post
Watch all 4 fights and you'll see JMM schooling him the same way




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