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Old 12-14-2012, 10:23 AM   #556
Loudon
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by BatTheMan View Post
So far nothing indicates that what I wrote could not be true. The problem is that you are not allowing for other possible scenarios than the ones that fits your agenda.

Think about it. After calling out Jones after (nearly) every single one of his defenses DM flat out turns down a 2 fight offer where the latter fight being the one he craves more than anything. I mean turns it down without even looking at it! That's what you are saying!

If such an offer is turned down then surely it must be because it was very far what they wanted wouldn't you think? Knowing that Jones was very hard to deal with that could be at least possible? You have to give me that.
Bat, there is no other scenario.

So lets get this straight.

DM was too proud to be an undercard fighter to the best fighter on the planet, but he was perfectly ok to fight the likes of Hall TWICE for around a $1M?

Funniest thing I've ever heard!

It was an EXCUSE!

Last edited by Loudon; 12-14-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:57 AM   #557
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

[quote=BatTheMan;14396572]
Quote:
He called out Jones after (nearly) every single one of his record breaking number of defenses.
Talk his cheap. When he was pushed in an interview, all he said was "talk to my management."

The links prove that nobody could negotiate with Kohl.

Quote:
It doesn't appear as if Jones wanted to fight him though as he likely only gave an offer for a slot at a Jones undercard worth peanuts.
Roy didn't offer anything. Roy's team and HBO wanted the double header to promote the fight.

He was getting $1M a fight in Germany. He could have fought on the double header, and then be paid good money $5-$6M but he refused.

HE THEN CONTINUED TO FIGHT FOR $1M against b class opposition.

Is any of this getting through.

Who says the double header would have been for peanuts?

If you're making $1M a fight, and someone says to you "Fight on this undercard/double header with Roy, and it'll hype the fight between you and make you loads of money etc" You wouldn't turn it down, to then carry on fighting nobodies for $1M.

Nobody would.

Unless,

1. They were stupid.

2. They didn't want the fight, and they were happy doing what they were doing.

Nobody would turn their back on that big money opportunity (if they wanted the fight, if he'd been calling him out etc, like you say) to then fight Hall and Harmon for the same money as what they'd been getting before. Why fight those guys for that money, when you've got a chance of unifying the division for $5-6m? It doesn't make any sense.

He could have fought Roy for ALL of the belts for $5-6M

But INSTEAD

He fought Hall twice and Harmon for around $1M-$1.5M

YET

You still think he wanted the fight with Roy?

Haha!

It's beyond ridiculous!


There is only ONE reason why DM did this, and we know from the 5 articles and the video that we've seen, what the reason was.


It was because, HE DIDN'T WANT THE FIGHT!

Last edited by Loudon; 12-14-2012 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:10 PM   #558
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
Bat, there is no other scenario.

So lets get this straight.

DM was too proud to be an undercard fighter to the best fighter on the planet, but he was perfectly ok to fight the likes of Hall TWICE for around a $1M?

Funniest thing I've ever heard!

It was an EXCUSE!
Why would the champ of the division who draws bigger crowds at home and makes more money at home, be an undercard fighter, earn less than being at home, to a fighter that doesnt have as big a following .

Seems Jones didnt want it

Funny how Jones will now fight in Oz and Russia
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:13 PM   #559
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by bailey View Post
Why would the champ of the division who draws bigger crowds at home and makes more money at home, be an undercard fighter, earn less than being at home, to a fighter that doesnt have as big a following .

Seems Jones didnt want it

Funny how Jones will now fight in Oz and Russia
DM ducked Roy bro
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:14 PM   #560
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by irishny View Post
If Ward fought Calzaghe now, he'd be derided left and right by everyone in the boxing industry(and rightfully so) for fighting a long retired fighter.

By the way,do you at leaqst admit that Ward is the man at SMW,now that hes easily beaten 3 of the top 5 SMW in the world?

You deride what Toney did at 168...tell me,what did Collins do at 175?

And thats when he was fighting...let alone when he had been retired for 2 years.

Instead of fighting Collins, Jones went on to fight someone who was still active(Collins wasnt), a light heavyweight champ(something Collins never was) and who had a win over Collins!

Also when Collins did come back for what many believed was a warm up match,after which he'd fight Jones, he collapsed in training.
Agreed, Even though Ward ducked Bute, he is the top SMW now, but has done it the easy way, by not fighting undefeated fighters and the division is weak and the best win for Ward was a Calzaghe left over. The current top 10 numbers 5-10 have weak poor resumes and most of the current top 10 dont have a resume as good as M Veit, and Im not joking
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:39 PM   #561
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Agreed, Even though Ward ducked Bute, he is the top SMW now, but has done it the easy way, by not fighting undefeated fighters and the division is weak and the best win for Ward was a Calzaghe left over. The current top 10 numbers 5-10 have weak poor resumes and most of the current top 10 dont have a resume as good as M Veit, and Im not joking
Mario Veit has one of the THE most padded records in the history of boxing!

And Ward beat Kessler more convincingly than Joe.

Froch beat the **** out of Bute,. The only reason Bute was undefeated was because he hadnt stepped up like Ward did and fight the best in the division.

Froch was ALWAYS better than Bute, as was Kessler. We saw that when Bute and Froch actually fought.

Ward is 28 and has a better SMW resume than Calzaghe already.

Heaven knows how much better it will be by the time hes Joes age!
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:12 PM   #562
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by irishny View Post
Mario Veit has one of the THE most padded records in the history of boxing!

And Ward beat Kessler more convincingly than Joe.

Froch beat the **** out of Bute,. The only reason Bute was undefeated was because he hadnt stepped up like Ward did and fight the best in the division.

Froch was ALWAYS better than Bute, as was Kessler. We saw that when Bute and Froch actually fought.

Ward is 28 and has a better SMW resume than Calzaghe already.

Heaven knows how much better it will be by the time hes Joes age!

He was trying to emulate his idol but had his idol done the same thing Bute did the result would have been the same ..There wasn't going to be a 10 yr stetch where Bute was going to pad his record like Joe thats why his defeat came so dramatic ..
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:32 PM   #563
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

I know this may sound crazy, but consider this.... Loudon and Bailey are the same person. A mega troll who is skizo... Talking to himself...
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:41 PM   #564
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by Elvizzz View Post
I know this may sound crazy, but consider this.... Loudon and Bailey are the same person. A mega troll who is skizo... Talking to himself...

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Old 12-14-2012, 09:44 PM   #565
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by Elvizzz View Post
I know this may sound crazy, but consider this.... Loudon and Bailey are the same person. A mega troll who is skizo... Talking to himself...
Ha! Now that would be ****ed up!
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:09 PM   #566
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Ha! Now that would be ****ed up!
Y totally maybe a little unrealistic, but an interesting thought.

I enjoy reading your debate anyway
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:14 PM   #567
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Bailey,

Quote:
Why would the champ of the division who draws bigger crowds at home and makes more money at home, be an undercard fighter, earn less than being at home, to a fighter that doesnt have as big a following
You're embarrassing yourself even more than you normally do.

Have you even read my post that you've quoted?

It was a proposed double header to promote the fight between them. It would have introduced him to the American public, and it would have hyped the fight and created huge interest. That's obvious!

DM was making between 1M-1.5M for fighting in Germany.

After the double header, he could have fought Roy to win his old belts back, and to unify the whole division, for between 5M-6M.

He turned down the opportunity.

Do you know what he did after turning down the opportunity to unify the division for that amount of money?

He CONTINUED fighting b class opposition.

He turned down a 6M opportunity, to fight

RICHARD HALL (twice)

DERICK HARMON

and

JOEY DE GRANDIS

Haha!

That's how BADLY he wanted Roy!

He turned down all that money in 2001, to fight De Grandis


Quote:
Seems Jones didnt want it
If you'd bothered to read the 5 different articles that's been posted with Jacobs and Murad, you wouldn't be looking like a complete fool right now!


Quote:
Funny how Jones will now fight in Oz and Russia
It's not funny at all. There's a perfectly logical answer. In 2001 Roy was the best fighter in the world, and the unified 175 champ. Fights were made on his terms. He was the man and he had power. He'd got something that other fighters wanted. If you want what the champ has, then you have to go to the champ, because he's not going to come to you.

When he went to Australia, Russia and Poland, it's because he had to. He was no longer the man, and he had to go to their back yards because he desperately wants a cruiser belt. He now has to do things, that he didn't need to in the past.

He wanted Green's cruiser belt, so he went to him. If DM had've badly wanted Roy's belts, then he had to go to Roy.


I guess I past my Sheffield test?
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:20 PM   #568
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by Elvizzz View Post
Y totally maybe a little unrealistic, but an interesting thought.

I enjoy reading your debate anyway
Ha! Even ESB couldn't be that crazy!

Thanks mate!
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:45 AM   #569
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Loudon, which Middleweight/Super Middleweight in the 90's would give Jones the most problems...or is there any fighter you'd take over Jones in the 90's?
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:58 AM   #570
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Dariusz Michalczewski & Graciano Rocchigianni.

I was hoping to see Roy Jones Jr fight these two guys even if it meant him going to their yards to get the job done. Thought Roy should have braved up and cleaned up the division with fights against each. They didn't have to be in close proximity to one another but he should have these guys on his resume.

Would have also been nice to be talking about Jones' trilogies with Toney and Hopkins. Easily could have happened with both. 3 fights total is not satisfactory especially with one a rematch that came decades past the due date.

Chris Byrd is another guy I would have liked to have seen him fight too. Two guys with different use of speed and tactics, angles and counter punches.

I
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