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Old 12-14-2012, 12:20 AM   #31
Rumsfeld
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


The idea here is that these are your rankings gents. The above link will tell you a little more about the TBRB, but briefly it's been felt that with The Ring Magazine rankings becoming questionable and with the racketeers still running the alphabet soup, the internet could do better. This is the result and it's been adopted by several websites as offical rankings, including ESB.

They are currently updated monthly on the homepage, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], on ESB's frontpage and on the various other websites who we support/who support us.

But the bottom line is the fans. That's you lot. So speak up. What you like, what you don't, we're interested in what you and the rest of boxing's put upon fanbase has to say.


A short write up on this month's changes:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Great stuff, McGrain!

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Old 12-14-2012, 12:23 AM   #32
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
No belts Joe. As far as i'm aware the fighters that become champion don't even get any kind of message telling them At first I thought that underwhelming, but now I kind of like it. These rankings aren't about the fighters, they're about the fans.

When you look at Ring rankings what do you think? Especially when there's a striking new entry or new #2? You think, "is this a Golden Boy fighter?" if you're anything like me. Rightly or wrongly, fair or unfair. This month they seem to have reallly lost it with that p4p list.

Even a casual ESB member knows that the Alphabet crew are a joke. So where does a fan go on the internet if they can't figure out who is #2, or #5 or #1 or whatever in each division? We want them to come to our site, or one of the sites that support our rankings.
It's a great idea, McGrain. I, for one, trust something you're involved with far more than anything having to do with the alphabets or RING.

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Old 12-14-2012, 02:43 AM   #33
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

Cheers Rummy, I appreciate that. Just to stress though guys, there are 20+ guys in and around this project and I had nothing to do with its founding - given that I wasn't one of the three founding members my workload is representitive of less than a 20th. Thanks for the kind words though.

Many of you will know Springs Toledo, Stonehands89 to most of you, he's heavily involved.

As for the points raised on the previous page, thanks, keep 'em coming.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:16 AM   #34
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

cruiser-weight in particular is a tough division to call.

I think it's Lebedev and not Huck that's #1. Sure, Huck deserves credit for taking on the tough opponents, but he hasn't exactly won all these fights. In the eyes of the international fan, did Huck beat Lebedev?

I think your 10 names are good choices but I would rearrange the order.

1. Lebedev
2. Hernandez
3. Huck
4. Ross
5. Wlod
6. Afolabi
7. Tarver
8. Arslan
9. Kayode
10. Palacios

It's a messy division that needs cleaning up. Come on Fast Eddie!
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:12 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

I think Wlad should be the HW "champ", regardless of the ranking rules..
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:31 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

Tim Starks here, one of the Board's founders. Thanks, all, for the feedback, positive and critical alike.

Matt's answered a lot of your questions very well, I think, but I wanted to add a couple things of my own.

On the heavies:

I wouldn't trust any organization that had a set of rules and broke them "just because." Springs wrote an eloquent defense of the policy vis-a-vis Wladimir here -- [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Chambers hasn't fought yet at cruiserweight, and it's not clear if he's making his permanent home there. Until then, he should be ranked at heavyweight. It's very possible he could test the waters at cruiser and find them not to his liking and return to heavyweight, then we would've moved him around for nothing. Marco Huck recently did the same thing, except in reverse, and not so long ago Michael Katsidis declared he was switching divisions, then immediately changed his mind. I think it would be a bad idea generally speaking for a rankings organization to rank or unrank fighters until they ACT on their stated intentions, although perhaps there are scenarios I cannot currently envision where it would be a good idea.

On Angulo/Dirrell:

Angulo was left out of our junior middleweight rankings when they were inaugurated in October. There was a good debate about whether he belonged in the top 10 or not, but the majority of people who weighed in on it felt others were more deserving. Dirrell also prompted some serious debate, with some not liking him in the super middleweight top 10 at all, some not liking him very high and some wanting him higher than we had originally proposed. His placement where you see it was the result of a compromise between all those factions.

FWIW, I like where we have Dirrell personally, but still wish Angulo was in the top 10 of his division. That's the nature of the beast, though. Not everyone will agree with every ranking every time. I'd say, though, that I think there are good and rational arguments for Angulo being left out and Dirrell being where he is, even if I don't agree with them all. The goal of a rankings organization shouldn't be to please everyone all of the time, but to come up with a credible set of rankings. I think we've achieved that, but we'll always be interested in hearing from people about where they think we're wrong.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:05 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

p4p is on its way.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:25 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

Well this month I've finally abandoned the ring mag.

It pissed me off that it was 6 week behind anyways but the thought of Floyd v Guerrero being for it's title is too far. There should be no pretence now, the title is about publicity not crowning a champion.

No reason to hold it in higher esteem than any other alphabet title any more.

To be honest a ranking board consisting of 20+ knowledgeable fans and historians is leagues above anything else.

Don't award belts or any gimmick shit like that. Stay true to your guns. I don't agree with lineage in the current landscape but if this gains the prestige it deserves, maybe one day so will linearity again.
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:45 PM   #39
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

Who knows luff? Here's hoping.

I still pick up Ring occasionally for the pictures and the articles, some of which are ace. But I don't subscribe any more. I remember opening up the issue that landed on my doormat one Monday morning to read a detailed breakdown of the keys to victory for both Dawson and Ward - a fight that had happened two days before.
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:51 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Who knows luff? Here's hoping.

I still pick up Ring occasionally for the pictures and the articles, some of which are ace. But I don't subscribe any more. I remember opening up the issue that landed on my doormat one Monday morning to read a detailed breakdown of the keys to victory for both Dawson and Ward - a fight that had happened two days before.

I love the features and the historical lists they do (rarely agree but they are good to read) I just feel the magazine is getting less and less worth the money each month. I mean its gonna be next month till they talk about jmm starching Pac. I just don't wanna pay a fiver for old news any more.

I wouldn't by last months daily mirror so I don't wanna be buying last months boxing news any more. The title policy is not as bad as is made out but it has definitely room it further away from it's mission statement of crowning a true champ per division. It doesn't even have prestige any more.

YPH is ring champ and literally noone gives a shit.
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:58 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

For this to work, it needs to be updated far more often. A good ratings system is one thing but unless it's constantly updated, it's no use to anyone. For example, Jamie McDonnell is still listed as having 22 fights, even though he fought his 23rd nearly 2 months ago.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:31 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
Seems like a great idea, and if implemented correctly will be a fantastic tool for the boxing community.
You need a P4P list, though. I understand that you've gotta get all the other weights together, but a P4P ranking system is a must.
There's support on the Board and from the public for a P4P list, that's for sure.

We're working on figuring out how to do it in a sensible manner --we have to do it right or not at all. It isn't something we want to wing or totally formalize -we have to find the right middle. The key will be the criteria. It has to organize everyone's thoughts just enough for consistency -we can't have some guys factoring in "PPV buys" and "impact on the sport" and other guys drawing names out of a hat.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:40 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Well this month I've finally abandoned the ring mag.

It pissed me off that it was 6 week behind anyways but the thought of Floyd v Guerrero being for it's title is too far. There should be no pretence now, the title is about publicity not crowning a champion.

No reason to hold it in higher esteem than any other alphabet title any more.

To be honest a ranking board consisting of 20+ knowledgeable fans and historians is leagues above anything else.

Don't award belts or any gimmick shit like that. Stay true to your guns. I don't agree with lineage in the current landscape but if this gains the prestige it deserves, maybe one day so will linearity again.
No belts. No plans for belts. Hell --no money.

We're ranking guys with clean hands and pointing straight at the true champion as a service for fans -including ourselves.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:48 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

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Originally Posted by Jack View Post
For this to work, it needs to be updated far more often. A good ratings system is one thing but unless it's constantly updated, it's no use to anyone. For example, Jamie McDonnell is still listed as having 22 fights, even though he fought his 23rd nearly 2 months ago.
I just fixed Jamie McDonnell. Updating the records is going to be a pain, I can tell you that. As to updating the rankings more often, well, let's see what happens. Keep in mind -it ain't easy to get 25 guys from all over the planet on different clocks together every week to bang these out.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:08 AM   #45
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

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No belts. No plans for belts. Hell --no money.

We're ranking guys with clean hands and pointing straight at the true champion as a service for fans -including ourselves.
It's better with no belts because it really should stay pure and clean.

The flyweight division is a good example of why I don't feel lineage has any value at present but hopefull viloroa and Igarashi will compete the clean up this mess.

Out of interest stonehands, in terms of successions, has this ranking board replaced the ring for you?
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