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Old 12-16-2012, 04:19 AM   #46
BadJuju83
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

Think it's a great idea. All the best to those involved.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:16 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
It's better with no belts because it really should stay pure and clean.

The flyweight division is a good example of why I don't feel lineage has any value at present but hopefull viloroa and Igarashi will compete the clean up this mess.

Out of interest stonehands, in terms of successions, has this ranking board replaced the ring for you?
The fact that The Ring's rankings have been utterly compromised presents problems for any researcher and fan with an eye on history. Boxing needs an objective, authoritative rankings body that can be trusted. That was a major motivation behind the Trans Rankings.

The Ring's monthly ratings are good (for me, et al.) from May 1928 until May 2012 (though the problems began before then, and after Nigel Collins and his editors were dismissed). Between May and September 2012, The Ring may have to be the default ratings used. In a perfect world, the Trans Rankings would have begun in June, but this stuff takes time to design, debate, organize, recruit, adapt to changing conditions, etc.

So, yes, I think it crazy that the Trans Rankings would not be the go-to rankings for purists and eventually everyone -from October 2012 on.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:21 PM   #48
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The Trans Rankings active membership is as follows; in alphabetical order:
................

Adam Abramowitz is the founder and head writer for Saturday Night Boxing. In addition, he is the moderator of the online Saturday Night Boxing community, featuring discussion and opinion from over 50,000 boxing fans around the world. Abramowitz lives in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in the United States.

Ramon Aranda is the founder and editor-in-chief at 3 More Rounds. He also co-hosts the 3MR Podcast and is a contributor to Primer Round Magazine. Originally from Los Angeles, he currently lives in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Sidney Boquiren has covered the Japanese boxing scene since 2010. He began writing for The Boxing Bulletin, and then joined Bad Left Hook when the sites merged. His work has also been featured in Boxing Magazine, one of the major publications on the sport in Japan. Boquiren is based in Tokyo, Japan.

Jake Donovan is the Managing Editor of Boxing Scene. Donovan is based out of the southeast United States, but was born and raised in New York where he began his writing career in 1997.

Oliver Fennell is a British boxing writer based in Bangkok. He has covered boxing since 2000, most notably for UKWeeklyMagazine and Boxing News, for whom he is currently the Thai correspondent. His specialties are the heavyweight division, and British, American, and Asian boxing. Oliver has also covered many boxing topics and matches for a range of newspapers and websites and is a contributor and editor for the BoxRec database.

Andrew Fruman is a Canadian boxing writer based in Toronto. He writes for The Cruelest Sport and The Living Daylights, and is an assistant editor for Bad Left Hook. He is a member of the International Boxing Research Organization and a contributor and editor for the BoxRec database.

Stewart Howe (Tech) is a prime mover behind the British Boxing Hall of Fame and has worked closely with boxing personalities on both sides of the ropes and on both sides of the Atlantic. He is also website designer/artist and a founding member of the Transnational Boxing Rankings Board. Howe lives in London, England.

Jason Karp is a columnist and analyst. A regular contributor to The Cruelest Sport, his work has also appeared on Bad Left Hook and The Boxing Bulletin. Karp lives in Toronto, Ontario.

Ronan Keenan is a freelance writer based in Dublin, Ireland. His boxing writing has appeared on sites such as The Sweet Science, Boxing Scene, Seconds Out and Fox Sports. He is a member of the Boxing Writers Association of America and his work has been recognized by Barney Nagler Writing Awards on multiple occasions.

Kelsey McCarson is a boxing writer for The Sweet Science and a member of the International Boxing Research Organization. Kelsey has a B.A. in English from the University of Houston. He lives and works just outside of Houston, trains at his local amateur boxing gym, and is working on a book chronicling boxing’s heavyweight champions.

Alex McClintock started writing about boxing on the Queensberry Rules blog. He is now the Deputy Editor and has written about boxing and other subjects for The Ringwebsite, The Sweet Science, Men’s Fitness, and The Guardian. Alex started boxing after he became a fan and is 4-1 as an amateur.

Matt McGrain, a boxing historian, analyst, and lifelong student of the sport, is a writer for East Side Boxing and Boxing.com. McGrain lives in the Highlands of Scotland.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:21 PM   #49
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Continued...


Erika Montoya is a Mexican reporter with nearly ten years experience. She has written for La Aficion, Chronic Today, and Playboy Mexico and her subject of choice is the Sweet Science. Montoya currently covers boxing for Milenio Diario and HuffPostVoces.

Nnamdi Moweta is from Jos Plateau State, Nigeria. A manager of several African boxers in the mid-eighties, he has since become a respected media figure and a bridge between African culture and the world. He has contributed to the Africa Channel’s sports documentary “Boxing Before the Bell” and was the music supervisor for KassimtheDream, a documentary about Kassim Ouma which won eight international film festival awards. He has also been involved with several international news programs including BBC Africa’s sports show (“Fast Track”), The Voice of America’s African sports show, and NetworkAfrica. Moweta currently lives in Los Angeles, California in the United States and is the long-time host of Radio Afrodicia, which began broadcasting in 1995.

Alister Scott Ottesen is a boxing writer and historian based in Norway. He has done work for Norwegian newspapers, television, and contributed with research to several boxing related books. Ottesen is also a contributor and editor for BoxRec.com and a member of the International Boxing Research Organization. He owns one of Europe’s largest collections of boxing books and magazines.

Harry Otty is a boxing historian, author, coach, and competitor. A member of the International Boxing Research Organization and staff historian and writer at the Cyber Boxing Zone for over ten years, he has also compiled and written research articles for the Merseyside Former Boxers Association newsletter ‘Mugs Alley’ and was Associate Producer for the cable TV program Boxing’s Greatest Champions. He is the author of Charley Burley and the Black Murderers’ Row and also published Jerry Fitch’s recent biography of Jimmy Bivins. Otty has been involved in boxing for close to 40 years and has coached a number of national amateur champions in the United Kingdom and New Zealand. Originally from Liverpool, England he now lives in Auckland where he is attempting to grow his ‘micro-press’ of specialist boxing and wrestling titles.

Matthew Paras has been covering the sport of boxing since 2009 and currently writes for Max Boxing. As a writer, he covers a multitude of topics including the Chicago boxing scene, television ratings, and much more. He currently resides in Chicago, Illinois.

Vittorio Parisi, a former member of The Ring Ratings Advisory Panel, is a boxing historian, analyst, and member of the Editorial Staff of boxeringweb.net, the main Italian boxing website and one of the most followed in Europe. In recent years, he has been a boxing analyst for EurosportTelevision and Dahlia TV, as well as a journalist for the Italian Boxing Federation Magazine. He is involved in the boxing book series at BradipolibriEdition and is the author of Gong! A History of the Middleweight and Heavyweight Divisionsand The Uncrowned Kings. Parisi lives in Brescia, Italy.

Per-Ake Persson is a boxing writer/record keeper based in Lund, Sweden. He has covered boxing since the late 80´s for Boxing Update, Fight Fax, Boxing News, USA Boxing News, and a number of websites including knock-out.dk and Boxing Scene. His specialty is boxing in continental Europe.

Eric Raskin is a former associate editor, managing editor, and contributing editor for The Ring who has written for Grantland.com, ESPN.com, HBO.com,The Sweet Science, Maxboxing, and Boxing Monthly. He also co-hosts the subscription-based podcast Ring Theory. He is member of the Boxing Writers Association of America who has won five Barney Nagler Writing Awards (plus three Honorable Mentions). Eric lives outside Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in the United States.

Salvador Rodriguez is a Mexican boxing writer based in Mexico City. He has covered hundreds of matches around the world since 2005 for Diario Deportivo Record, the most important sports newspaper in Mexico. He is a contributor on many boxing websites in the United States and specializes in boxing in Central and South America and the United States.

Cliff Rold(Chair) is the Managing Editor of Boxing Scene, a member of the Yahoo Pound for Pound voting panel, the International Boxing Hall of Fame Committee, and the Boxing Writers Association of America. Rold is also a founding member of the Transnational Boxing Rankings Board.

Tim Starks(Chair) is the founder and editor of The Queensberry Rules, a boxing blog that has been praised by TheWall Street Journal, The New Yorker and other top publications. He has written about the sport for The Guardian, The Ring, Boxing Scene, The Sweet Science, and Bookforum. Starks is also a founding member of the Transnational Boxing Rankings Board. When not writing about boxing, he is a national security reporter for Congressional Quarterly in Washington, D.C.

Springs Toledo(Oversight) is a member of the Boxing Writers Association of America, the International Boxing Research Organization, the International Boxing Hall of Fame Committee, and an editor for the BoxRec database. A boxing historian, strategist, and analyst with no mean ring experience, his work can be found on The Sweet Science and has been recognized several times by Barney Nagler Writing Awards. He is a founding member of the Transnational Boxing Rankings Board. Toledo lives outside of Boston, Massachusetts in the United States.

Michael Woods is a contributing writer at ESPN: The Magazine. He has been the editor of The Sweet Science since 2007, and his blog, NYFightBlog, runs on ESPNNewYork.com. Woods, who lives in Park Slope, Brooklyn with his wife and two daughters, is on the board of the Boxing Writers Association of America.

Steve Zemach is a boxing writer and sports radio producer based in Miami, Florida. He contributes to The Queensberry Rules and has covered boxing since 2006. Zemach is the senior producer for the Sid Rosenberg show, a major radio show known for placing a strong emphasis on boxing.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:35 PM   #50
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Default Re: The Transnational Boxing Rankings

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
The fact that The Ring's rankings have been utterly compromised presents problems for any researcher and fan with an eye on history. Boxing needs an objective, authoritative rankings body that can be trusted. That was a major motivation behind the Trans Rankings.

The Ring's monthly ratings are good (for me, et al.) from May 1928 until May 2012 (though the problems began before then, and after Nigel Collins and his editors were dismissed). Between May and September 2012, The Ring may have to be the default ratings used. In a perfect world, the Trans Rankings would have begun in June, but this stuff takes time to design, debate, organize, recruit, adapt to changing conditions, etc.

So, yes, I think it crazy that the Trans Rankings would not be the go-to rankings for purists and eventually everyone -from October 2012 on.
for what it's worth I agree with every word.

the ring is declining in worth and prestige and now I can honestly say there's no reason to rank it significantly above the alpha belts.

All boxing needs is an honest ranking system that has the prestige such that one isn't considered a champion unless they sit atop those rankings. Until that day there will be no clarity.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:43 PM   #51
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for what it's worth I agree with every word.

the ring is declining in worth and prestige and now I can honestly say there's no reason to rank it significantly above the alpha belts.

All boxing needs is an honest ranking system that has the prestige such that one isn't considered a champion unless they sit atop those rankings. Until that day there will be no clarity.
Well, there is clarity today.

Prestige comes later and really depends on the media and the fans and the gradual acceptance of what we already know --that the Transnational Boxing Rankings Board reflects boxing's globalism, refuses to be compromised by the profit motive or any other corrupting influence, and that it can help the sport regain its senses after being on the ropes for the past 50 years.

It ain't gonna be easy.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:49 PM   #52
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Who knows luff? Here's hoping.

I still pick up Ring occasionally for the pictures and the articles, some of which are ace. But I don't subscribe any more. I remember opening up the issue that landed on my doormat one Monday morning to read a detailed breakdown of the keys to victory for both Dawson and Ward - a fight that had happened two days before.


I almost cancelled THE ECONOMIST some years ago when I lived in the Arctic and my mail-delivered copy's headline was something like WAR LOOMS IN THE GULF, referring to the FIRST Gulf War in Kuwait.

The war had been over a week or so at that time.



A print version of a magazine has a real difficult time competing with on-line media. A lot of thought probably went into that keys-to-victory article. Shame it didn't make its rounds till it became passé.


At any rate, despite the large number of trolls and so forth on here, I find there are sufficient reasonably knowledgeable posters on ESB that it's easier to keep abreast of the sport by logging on a few hours a week than reading dated magazine articles. The back-and-forth nature of the debate, often in near real time adds to the site's advantage over RING.



An unfortunate downside was my discovery of THE LOUNGE, which has since become my favourite waste of time.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:25 AM   #53
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Why were you living in the Arctic?
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:18 AM   #54
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Why were you living in the Arctic?
I was working there. Baffin Island from 1989 till 1998.

Mail was slow and coverage of boxing near non existent, at least till we got Sat-tv in 96.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:53 AM   #55
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Well, there is clarity today.

Prestige comes later and really depends on the media and the fans and the gradual acceptance of what we already know --that the Transnational Boxing Rankings Board reflects boxing's globalism, refuses to be compromised by the profit motive or any other corrupting influence, and that it can help the sport regain its senses after being on the ropes for the past 50 years.

It ain't gonna be easy.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
And that is the main thing I disagree with you on. The rankings are great and better compiled than any other I know of.


But without prestige the championship policy is no more than a novel idea. I'd love for the day an interviewer says "so you've picked up a belt, but to be the real champion you must face fighter a". That day just isn't today.

We can but hope though and this is a step I. The right direction.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:07 PM   #56
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Haye ahead of Povetkin in the rankings? Sheer nonsense. Ridiculous rankings and I really see no point in scrolling down any further to check the rest. Obviously too many people with an agenda are responsible for these rankings.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:39 PM   #57
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Haye ahead of Povetkin in the rankings? Sheer nonsense. Ridiculous rankings and I really see no point in scrolling down any further to check the rest. Obviously too many people with an agenda are responsible for these rankings.
Yes agenda driven not for profit rankings. Makes perfect sense
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:48 PM   #58
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Haye ahead of Povetkin in the rankings? Sheer nonsense. Ridiculous rankings and I really see no point in scrolling down any further to check the rest. Obviously too many people with an agenda are responsible for these rankings.
Ranking Haye ahead of Povetkin H2H is anything but nonsense....it's pretty much consensus. Ranking Haye ahead of Povetkin on the basis of accomplishment IS a stretch.

here are some of the stated guidelines
Quote:
  • Differentiating between a fighter’s winning streak and current form will be a matter of debate by the Board.
  • In those instances where a contender is inactive for one year or more, he will be removed from the rankings until such time as he fights and earns back a place in the top ten. Exceptions for medical issues will be considered.
  • In those instances where a fighter announces his intention of competing in a new division, he will be removed from his former division’s rankings only after he competes in the new division and his intention remains.
  • No fighter earns a place in the top ten by appointment. Name recognition or previous record in a different weight class is not necessarily an indication of performance in a new weight class.
  • Although close losses and poor wins may be reflected in the rankings, the Board will refrain from nullifying the official results, with one exception: If over 75% of the Board agrees that the judges’ decision in a non-championship bout is egregious enough to constitute a “robbery,” then the official winner may be ranked lower than the official loser. At least eleven votes are needed for a quorum.
The first point seems to imply that "current form" (as distinguished from pure accomplishment) plays a role in the rankings. Should we interpret that to mean that H2H ability plays a part in the rankings? Cause it's hard to rank Haye ahead of Povetkin and Adamek without taking subjective stuff like "form" and "h2h" and "controversial wins" into account.



The last point will also make for interesting debate. By these criteria Chisora should have been ranked ahead of Helenius (before he lost 2 fights in a row afterwards anyway). Should Chambers be ranked ahead of Adamek? Or to go with an even closer fight, should Lebedev be ranked ahead of Huck?
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:01 PM   #59
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Haye ahead of Povetkin in the rankings? Sheer nonsense. Ridiculous rankings and I really see no point in scrolling down any further to check the rest. Obviously too many people with an agenda are responsible for these rankings.
The tbr have much better rankings than your own list, which you keep on posting on ESB despite it being laughably bad.

25 boxing experts > a boring, racist troll with no interest beyond the HW division
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:09 PM   #60
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And that is the main thing I disagree with you on. The rankings are great and better compiled than any other I know of.


But without prestige the championship policy is no more than a novel idea. I'd love for the day an interviewer says "so you've picked up a belt, but to be the real champion you must face fighter a". That day just isn't today.

We can but hope though and this is a step I. The right direction.
Thanks. Right. In the meantime, it does seem that purists are gradually climbing on board the Trans Ranking train.
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