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View Poll Results: Juan Manuel Marquez: Great fighter or All-Time Great fighter?
Yes, I consider him to be an ATG 35 53.85%
No, he's just very good. 30 46.15%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-17-2012, 11:53 AM   #391
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
1. He did not 'clear out featherweight'!!!

He did not beat Manny '4 out of 4' either!

****s sake.
1. Sort of did
2. HE Did
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:58 PM   #392
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Originally Posted by red cobra View Post
You mean if he emulated the Master of Negative Creativity himself?
If you've got a sweet bippy lying around, you can take the mu****a out and bet it.

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Originally Posted by red cobra View Post
When you think of JMM, think "lower case JJW". That's what he is....and like I said earler, that's pretty gosh-darned good in itself, and an accurate assessment of JMM.
I really don't see what John Jacob Wingleheimerschmidt has anything to do with anything, RC.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:25 PM   #393
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
1. Sort of did
2. HE Did
You've conceded to the first point, that's enough for me today
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:28 PM   #394
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Originally Posted by lora View Post
Marquez above 130 is one of the most genuinely overrated fighters of all-time for me.

Still very good, mind, but still.
Solid lightweight champ' with 3 solid wins and only man to stop Casamayor and Juan Diaz at the weight.

Not great so I can see your point. All his most impressive work was done when he was getting on and looked past it IMO.

Lo and behold he looks incredible again now
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:58 PM   #395
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Originally Posted by red cobra View Post
Your whole point is based on that fallacy.
Not at all.

But Pacquiao is an all-time great. And Márquez has bested him as the capstone of a great career.

Márquez no longer needs any particular endorsement. His record speaks for itself.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:06 PM   #396
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Originally Posted by the cobra View Post
A KO win over the most accomplished fighter of his era (Manny's faded, fine, but he's still excellent and JMM proved he could stand on equal footing with the better version anyway), absolutely top notch longevity, a string of solid wins, success through 4 weight divisions, etc.

Yeah, I've got him as an ATG. Definitely. As far as Mexican ATG's go, I'd have him right next to Sanchez, honestly, and maybe even a spot higher. Top 5, there.
Well said.

And, yes, I too have got Márquez among the Top 5 great Mexicans.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:40 PM   #397
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Originally posted by PowerPuncher
beat his greatest rival of his era 4 times out of 4

HE Did
Pac won the first two. JMM was lucky to get that draw.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:11 PM   #398
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Pac won the first two. JMM was lucky to get that draw.
He got lucky by winning 8-9 rounds?

No way in this universe Pac won the second, maybe you watched it in a parallel dimension somewhere where Pac has a better defence but not in this one
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:15 PM   #399
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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He got lucky by winning 8-9 rounds?

No way in this universe Pac won the second, maybe you watched it in a parallel dimension somewhere where Pac has a better defence but not in this one
i like ya PP but i gotta disagree

i had pac winning the first 2 by a point. could easily see the same score for marquez. they were ridiculously close but marquez's performances in both, the first especially, get a bit overblown for me

he won most of the 11 rounds after the first in the first fight (7-4 on my card) but he didn't beat pac from pillar to post. the first round was 10-6 and they gave pac the edge for me

gave pac the 2nd fight to, 6-6 with an extra point for the knockdown. if the ref had called the second knockdown when marquez held on to the ropes to stay up, it would be even clearer

haven't seen the third
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:22 PM   #400
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
If you've got a sweet bippy lying around, you can take the mu****a out and bet it.



I really don't see what John Jacob Wingleheimerschmidt has anything to do with anything, RC.

What i'm alluding to is the parallel between the two of them..repeated attempts vs the same opponent (JJW vs Charles/JMM vs Pac) before scoring 1 punch ko's over their nemesis...and i liken JMM to Walcott inasfar as his overall abilities are concerned. He's an excellent fighter, but not the alltime great he's being pumped up to be by you guys. Not even the greatest Mexican champ of all time.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:13 AM   #401
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
For the record, I have the series 3-1 for Marquez. I scored the second and third fights for him.
Same as.

To be honest I cannot see any way in which Pacquiao has won 2 or 3.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:29 AM   #402
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Originally Posted by red cobra View Post
Ali was far closer to prime than was Manny in that 4th fight with JMM. That disputed loss in Pac's previous fight should be an indicator that he's slipped.
Don't you think JMM has slipped a bit too, at age 39 ?
If not, he must be truly great to have remained so good for so long.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:37 AM   #403
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

Absolutely an ATG...anything less would be a robbery...like that one match he had...
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:34 PM   #404
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Originally Posted by red cobra View Post
[/b]
What i'm alluding to is the parallel between the two of them..repeated attempts vs the same opponent (JJW vs Charles/JMM vs Pac) before scoring 1 punch ko's over their nemesis...and i liken JMM to Walcott inasfar as his overall abilities are concerned. He's an excellent fighter, but not the alltime great he's being pumped up to be by you guys. Not even the greatest Mexican champ of all time.
The parallel is not without merit, but is misleading: Walcott had retired 6 times before finally winning the crown at age 37. He is no Juan Manuel Márquez.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:52 PM   #405
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Default Re: Do you consider Juan Manuel Marquez to be an ATG

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
For the record, I have the series 3-1 for Marquez. I scored the second and third fights for him.
I have it 4-0 for Marquez, but I can absolutely see scoring the first fight to Manny.

2nd fight was close, but the only way to have it for Pac is to have it 6-6. NO WAY did Pacquiao win 7 rounds. I had Marquez winning seven rounds, close fight, Manny got it, these things happen.

Third fight, Pacquiao got a gift. Period. He was schooled, 8-4.

And, of course, 4th fight he got KTFO.

I think Marquez has proven to be more then Pacquiao's match in terms of actual ability in the ring. They are on the same tier of fighter in terms of skill and ability. Pacquiao accomplished more with his career, and it will probably go down in history that way, because I see Marquez as being near the end.
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