Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-18-2012, 07:45 AM   #676
knockout artist
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,422
vCash: 2666
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
You dont know what you're talking about if you think Ward came out of the super6 with no injuries.

"
MRI reveals Ward beat Froch with a broken left hand

"I'm glad I didn't know my hand was fractured before the fight, I just feel it was better that way. I knew something was wrong, and I knew it hurt extremely bad, but I also knew we had no choice but to move forward with the fight," said Ward, who fought Froch on Dec. 17 in Atlantic City, N.J.

I know about the broken hand you idiot, I saw the picture on twitter after the fight!

How would a broken hand sustained against Froch in December of 2011, prevent Ward from fighting Bute at all in 2012!?
knockout artist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-18-2012, 07:51 AM   #677
dinovelvet
Up Top To The Head
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,728
vCash: 100
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Because Bute signed the deal with Froch a month after. Ward didn't fight till over a year later. Is it getting through now.
dinovelvet is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 08:12 AM   #678
knockout artist
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,422
vCash: 2666
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
Because Bute signed the deal with Froch a month after.
Ward-Froch was in December

Bute v Froch was signed in March

Are you joking? Could Ward and his team not negotiate a fight in January-March to take place in July, August or whenever when Ward's hand would be healed up?

Ward's team didn't negotiate with Bute's team because Ward wanted no part of Bute. Bute went to Froch because it was obvious Ward wouldn't fight him


Quote:
Ward didn't fight till over a year later. Is it getting through now.

Ward didn't fight till over a year later? December 2011 - September 2012 is over a year?
knockout artist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 08:26 AM   #679
Loudon
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 5,513
vCash: 500
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Quote:
Originally Posted by pecho26 View Post
Im friends on facebook with rudy hernandez(trainer,current cutman in ufc),had some interesting conversations with him,guy is great,really modest and humble.
Some boxers in croatia,nothing special.Things here are really bad boxing wise,and state wise.
That's great mate. I used to really love the UFC back in the day. I know they had to bring the rules in, and the weight divisions, but it's not as exciting for me, as what it used to be. I respect all of the fighters, but there's not much intrigue for me in the bouts.

I used to like seeing guys fight each other, that had different skills from each other, that had different backgrounds. It was intruiging to see a Kickboxer vs Royce Gracie etc. Now it seems as though most fighters have similar skill sets.

I'd like to see a proper MMA tournament, where you have pro boxers, kung fu masters, and experts in Tae Kwon Do etc. It would be a lot more exciting. The last time I watched UFC a few years ago, hardly any of the fighters I watched had striking skills. They were just trying to get each other to the ground. Like I say, I respect their skills, but each fighter to me, looks as though they've both got exactly the same skill sets.

Without being disrespectful, I got a bit bored watching it, the last time.

I want to see guys with different skill sets from each other.

I've got a question for you, that you've probably been asked before.

I'm a huge fan of Bruce Lee's. I've watched him since I was about 7 years old, and read all the books, looked at all of the rare clips, etc, and studied his life. I know that his skills weren't just for the camera, and he really could fight.

What do you think would have happened if Bruce had've entered the UFC?

I've heard many people say that, he didn't have a ground game etc, and once he was taken to the floor, he'd be finished. But how would you have taken him to the floor?

I've heard other people say, he would only be successful in his weight division.

But without being a blinded fan, I'd have favoured Bruce against any UFC heavyweights. Being a heavyweight has it's obvious advantages, but also it's disadvantages too. Just because he'd have been outweighed by a lot, I don't think that means he couldn't compete.

What do you think?


Regards, Loudon.
Loudon is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 09:30 AM   #680
pecho26
ESB Lurker
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,071
vCash: 515
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
That's great mate. I used to really love the UFC back in the day. I know they had to bring the rules in, and the weight divisions, but it's not as exciting for me, as what it used to be. I respect all of the fighters, but there's not much intrigue for me in the bouts.

I used to like seeing guys fight each other, that had different skills from each other, that had different backgrounds. It was intruiging to see a Kickboxer vs Royce Gracie etc. Now it seems as though most fighters have similar skill sets.

I'd like to see a proper MMA tournament, where you have pro boxers, kung fu masters, and experts in Tae Kwon Do etc. It would be a lot more exciting. The last time I watched UFC a few years ago, hardly any of the fighters I watched had striking skills. They were just trying to get each other to the ground. Like I say, I respect their skills, but each fighter to me, looks as though they've both got exactly the same skill sets.

Without being disrespectful, I got a bit bored watching it, the last time.

I want to see guys with different skill sets from each other.

I've got a question for you, that you've probably been asked before.

I'm a huge fan of Bruce Lee's. I've watched him since I was about 7 years old, and read all the books, looked at all of the rare clips, etc, and studied his life. I know that his skills weren't just for the camera, and he really could fight.

What do you think would have happened if Bruce had've entered the UFC?

I've heard many people say that, he didn't have a ground game etc, and once he was taken to the floor, he'd be finished. But how would you have taken him to the floor?

I've heard other people say, he would only be successful in his weight division.

But without being a blinded fan, I'd have favoured Bruce against any UFC heavyweights. Being a heavyweight has it's obvious advantages, but also it's disadvantages too. Just because he'd have been outweighed by a lot, I don't think that means he couldn't compete.

What do you think?


Regards, Loudon.
Bruce lee was a bad mother****er,Gene Lebell who was a great judoka taught Bruce grappling,so Bruce had a grappling knowledge,Lee as i read worked on different techniques as well including boxing,leg kicks,wing chun.
In his weight division with all that physical attributes he would be very good.

I think he was a guy who when you first taught him a move,the second time he did it like you did and third the better than you.So i think the ground work would be easier for him to learn.And that guy was so ridiculously fast as well.But who knows....
About the current HW of UFC,no i think he would get pummeled.But thats just my opinion.
I dont know if you watched K-1 ever but there is a guy who fights in HW division,Kaoklai Kaennorsing who weighs 75-78 kg,he has balls of steel to fight guys who outwegh him by 20-30 kg.Check him out if you have the time.

Todays mma fighters go and learn boxing from Joel Diaz,Jeff Mayweather,Floyd Mayweather,Freddie Roach and few others,so skill wise they are better than b4.
Ofc it will never be on boxers levels considering their hands,movement,rythm etc.

I am BIG boxing fan,but i love to watch a good mma fight(Junior dos Santos,Cain Velasquez,Anderson Silva,Nick Diaz etc).
Those guys train pretty hard and i have a friend who has over 30 pro MMA fights,i used to spar with him all the time.So i respect them a lot.
pecho26 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 09:50 AM   #681
dinovelvet
Up Top To The Head
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,728
vCash: 100
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Ward-Froch was in December

Bute v Froch was signed in March

Are you joking? Could Ward and his team not negotiate a fight in January-March to take place in July, August or whenever when Ward's hand would be healed up?

Ward's team didn't negotiate with Bute's team because Ward wanted no part of Bute. Bute went to Froch because it was obvious Ward wouldn't fight him






Ward didn't fight till over a year later? December 2011 - September 2012 is over a year?
The fight was announced in March so that meant talks were going on a lot earlier than that, probably late Januray. Use you're head dum dum. Ward was off the grid. If Bute wanted Ward he wouldn't of signed himself out for the next two years. He saw the destruction Ward did on Froch, so he went after Froch. There was never talks for a fight because Ward had a broken hand. If Ward ducked Bute , he would of had to fight somebody else at the time, he didn't, he was injured.
What do you fail you understand about this fact??
You and the other chumps you gather with are desperate to try bring Ward down, and you will do anything to degrade him, thats what this is all about and the rest of the forum knows it.
dinovelvet is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 10:06 AM   #682
knockout artist
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,422
vCash: 2666
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
The fight was announced in March so that meant talks were going on a lot earlier than that, probably late Januray. Use you're head dum dum. Ward was off the grid. If Bute wanted Ward he wouldn't of signed himself out for the next two years. He saw the destruction Ward did on Froch, so he went after Froch. There was never talks for a fight because Ward had a broken hand. If Ward ducked Bute , he would of had to fight somebody else at the time, he didn't, he was injured.
What do you fail you understand about this fact??



Promoters and their team can negotiate with different teams at the same time - Ward's team made no effort whatsoever to contact Interbox or Jean Bedard. Why? Because they didn't want the fight, it's as simple as that.

After the S6, Bute and his team wanted to face Ward, hence why Bute said he was willing to travel to Oakland as Ward wouldn't come to Canada. Bute said he was willing to come to Oakland, after Ward-Froch, so your point is moot, not that it was valid in any case.

Bute's team entered into talks with Froch, because Ward's team made no contact, and wouldn't negotiate - and we have proof of that. Bute's promoter confirmed it, and none of the Ward camp denied it.

The reason a rematch clause was inserted was because Bute and his team were taking a massive risk Ward wouldn't, by travelling to Nottingham, there's nothing unreasonable about that.

Ward had no dates scheduled, so what do you mean he would have had to fight someone else? His contract with showtime was up, hence why he's now on HBO. He had no scheduled date, hence no obligation, so that's yet another moot point.

There is no valid reason why Ward could not have fought Bute. The truth is that he and his team didn't want the fight, hence why they made no contact with Interbox and Bute's managers.



Quote:
You and the other chumps you gather with are desperate to try bring Ward down, and you will do anything to degrade him, thats what this is all about and the rest of the forum knows it.

As said, I've always been a fan of Ward since he beat Kessler. My disappointment is the poor fights being made since the S6, 168 Dawson and now Pavlik terrible fights. The fight fans wanted was against Bute, and Ward steered well clear, instead taking on an easy fight against a drained Dawson who poses no threat at SMW.
knockout artist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 10:24 AM   #683
dinovelvet
Up Top To The Head
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,728
vCash: 100
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

You've been told over and over how it was. Typing a big essay wont change anything.
Bute didn't want and he aslo didn't want the super 6. Last 2 min. Bute was a hypejob and his team knew it. They made the mistake of thinking Froch was over the hill.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIhOxQEXCHY[/ame]
dinovelvet is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 10:38 AM   #684
knockout artist
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,422
vCash: 2666
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
You've been told over and over how it was. Typing a big essay wont change anything.
Bute didn't want and he aslo didn't want the super 6. Last 2 min. Bute was a hypejob and his team knew it. They made the mistake of thinking Froch was over the hill.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


Ward can say what he wants - let's look at actions, and facts

Firstly Ward made no mention of his broken hand keeping him out of action for 6 months or more, so you're point is moot

Bute and his team wanted Ward and made it clear they were willing to travel to Oakland

Quote:
But Bute is willing to fight Ward in Oakland, where Ward trains.

“I can go to Oakland,” Bute said, before adding, “I’m thinking [Ward] will not come to Canada to fight me."
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

from the scene

Actions speak louder than words, and Bute travelled to Nottingham to fight Froch, so we can believe that he's telling the truth when he says he would have travelled to Oakland.

- Then Ward and his team come out after Bute-Froch is signed and say they wanted to fight Bute, but this is proven to be more lies, Bute's manager states

Quote:
"It's like he was resurrected after Easter ... after all, his nickname is 'Son Of God.' When I first read [Ward's comments], I thought it was a joke. We never had any discussions with Andre Ward. In fact, we have not heard from him since December 18... If he wanted to fight Lucian, we might have already been one week away before the fight."

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


What about after the Froch fight, when Bute called Ward out, how did Ward respond?

Quote:
Bute and Bedard, who met with a handful of boxing media a few hours before the final, made it clear that their priority was the winner. The main reason Bute signed with Showtime in late 2010 was to position himself to face the winner, who is also tied to the network.

"I am ready to fight the winner," said Bute, a native of Romania based in Montreal, in his ever-improving English. "If Carl Froch wins, I'm ready to fight in Nottingham [England] to make this fight happen. And if it's Ward, I can go to Oakland."
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Quote:
“We’re going to sit down with my team. We talk as a team. We’re going to figure out what the next move is. We’re not bound to do anything. We’re going to sit down as a team, talk to Goossen, talk to my coach, talk to my manager, and we’ll see what’s next.”
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Ahh, the classic 'talk to my promoter' cop out. If Ward wanted Bute, he had his chance to say it there and then.

It's interesting that Ward says he has no obligations, and his team still made no effort to contact Bute's team, as has been confirmed

Quote:
"So I don't have to go to Lucian Bute right now," Ward said. "We're going to sit back and I'm going to rest and we'll see what's next.

I think I earned the right to pick the right fight for the right price."
And made no effort to contact Bute's team, because they didn't want the fight

Just for a wider perspective, what did Eddie Hearn think?

Article Link - [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
This is a legal waiver. By copying and using the material from this article, you agree to give full credit to ***********.com or provide a link to the original article.

Quote:
Hearn said: “I think it is a natural fight [between But and Froch]. I am very confident we can make that fight ASAP. I don’t think Ward wants to fight Bute. I don’t believe he would fight him in a million years.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

from the scene again


The fight was there to be made, Ward didn't want it

Last edited by knockout artist; 12-18-2012 at 10:50 AM.
knockout artist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 10:55 AM   #685
dinovelvet
Up Top To The Head
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,728
vCash: 100
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

And Bute can say what HE wants. Thats a double standard at its worst.

Actions do speak louder than words and Bute signed himself out for two years. Ward was willing to fight him and the fight was there to be made. Bute gave him no option to fight for the next TWO YEARS.
How long do you thing is required to fix a broken hand? He wasn't out for 6 months , it was a full ****ing year dum dum.

You are moot and your argument is not driven by facts, but a hate fuelled agenda against Ward.
dinovelvet is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 11:25 AM   #686
knockout artist
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,422
vCash: 2666
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
And Bute can say what HE wants. Thats a double standard at its worst.
No it's not

Bute said he would travel to Nottingham to face Froch, or Oakland to face Ward

We can believe what he said, because his actions entirely justified his words as he travelled to Nottingham. He would have travelled to Oakland

Ward stated he wanted to face Bute before he signed to fight Ward

That's a lie, and his actions don't justify what he said because his team never contacted Bute's team to make the fight, as has been confirmed

[quote]
Quote:
"It's like he was resurrected after Easter ... after all, his nickname is 'Son Of God.' When I first read [Ward's comments], I thought it was a joke. We never had any discussions with Andre Ward. In fact, we have not heard from him since December 18... If he wanted to fight Lucian, we might have already been one week away before the fight."

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]




Quote:
Actions do speak louder than words and Bute signed himself out for two years. Ward was willing to fight him and the fight was there to be made. Bute gave him no option to fight for the next TWO YEARS.
Ward was filling to fight him?

Quote:
"It's like he was resurrected after Easter ... after all, his nickname is 'Son Of God.' When I first read [Ward's comments], I thought it was a joke. We never had any discussions with Andre Ward. In fact, we have not heard from him since December 18... If he wanted to fight Lucian, we might have already been one week away before the fight."

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


Why not contact them to make the fight? Bute signed to face Froch because Ward wanted nothing to do with Bute - fact.


Quote:
How long do you thing is required to fix a broken hand? He wasn't out for 6 months , it was a full ****ing year dum dum.

It's ironic that you call me 'dum dum' - you say Ward was out for a full year

Yet he fought Froch on December 17th - and fought Chad Dawson on September 11th - so he would have gone into training to face Dawson in like July, meaning his hand was absolutely fine within 6 months.

Looking a bit closer

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciqkf7XN4SA[/ame]


Here's a video of Ward training and hitting the bag hard with his right hand in May - hence we know that Ward's hand was completely fine by May as well

There was nothing stopping him fighting Bute, except the fact that he and his team didn't want it. As evidenced by the fact they didn't contact Bute's team at all


Quote:
You are moot and your argument is not driven by facts, but a hate fuelled agenda against Ward.

knockout artist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 11:38 AM   #687
dinovelvet
Up Top To The Head
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,728
vCash: 100
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Have you some sort of brain block? By May, Bute/Froch had been a done deal for 2 months. What the **** is that video meant to prove?

Ward was out for a year. Why would he have discussions with Bute in Dec 2011 when he wasn't going to be in the ring for another year?
Because he went to the UK does not mean he would of went to Oakland , Froch was in the UK who they thought could be beaten easily.

His broken hand and the fact Bute signed with Froch 2- 3 months after Ward/Froch stopped the fight being made.
You bring forth different,shitty, half baked excues every time.

Bute was a hypejob. His team knew it. They signed Bute away from Ward for TWO YEARS. There is no argument against this fact.
dinovelvet is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 11:44 AM   #688
knockout artist
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,422
vCash: 2666
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
Have you some sort of brain block? By May, Bute/Froch had been a done deal for 2 months. What the **** is that video meant to prove?

Ward's hand was fine by May, and probably much earlier.

Between December and March, Ward's team could have made a fight with Ward, they didn't because they didn't want it


Quote:
Ward was out for a year.
No he wasn't, he fought in September and was seen in training as early as May

Quote:
Why would he have discussions with Bute in Dec 2011 when he wasn't going to be in the ring for another year?
Because he went to the UK does not mean he would of went to Oakland , Froch was in the UK who they thought could be beaten easily.
Bute showed himself willing to travel, saying he will go to Oakland is believable, he went to Nottingham

Quote:
His broken hand and the fact Bute signed with Froch 2- 3 months after Ward/Froch stopped the fight being made.
You bring forth different,shitty, half baked excues every time.
You can't counter with any of my 'shitty half baked excuses' so what does that say about you? You have no provided no sources to back up anything you've claimed you embarrassment


Quote:
Bute was a hypejob. His team knew it. They signed Bute away from Ward for TWO YEARS. There is no argument against this fact.
You're a clown - two years? If Bute hadn't gotten knocked out like that by Froch, they would have rematched again this year, there was no timescale for the Froch-Bute rematch,

They signed the fight with Froch, because Ward wanted NOTHING to do with Bute, hence:

[quote]
Quote:
"It's like he was resurrected after Easter ... after all, his nickname is 'Son Of God.' When I first read [Ward's comments], I thought it was a joke. We never had any discussions with Andre Ward. In fact, we have not heard from him since December 18 ... If he wanted to fight Lucian, we might have already been one week away before the fight."

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
knockout artist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 11:47 AM   #689
SouthpawJab
On his way up!! 4-0!!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis
Posts: 4,389
vCash: 462
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

We've gone over this a million times on this forum. Bute did not duck out of the Super 6. He was never invited. Ken Hershman(now the head guy at HBO, but was the forerunner of the Super 6) said Bute was never invited.
SouthpawJab is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:07 PM   #690
dinovelvet
Up Top To The Head
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,728
vCash: 100
Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

How ****ing thick are you? Ward was out of action from that point for a year? Why would he be having discusions.
As you said , Bute can say what he wants, doesn't mean its true. What is true is he took what he thought to be the easy fight that would take up two years. He was a hypejob. His team knew it, everybody now knows it.

"I was disappointed," Ward said. "Bute and his promoter were screaming and yelling that I was ducking them, then they go and make a two-fight deal with Froch where if he loses, he takes Froch back to Canada? I didn't understand that. I was never ducking him, I just wanted to build up the fight. I was coming off two years of grueling fights and I felt he needed to fight someone. But ducking him? Come on. He wants belts, I have three belts over here if he wants to fight for a belt.

yOU'RE the same idiot who tries to covince people he lost to Boone. You'rer a hater and in full hate mode here.
dinovelvet is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013