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Old 12-18-2012, 05:27 PM   #1
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Default Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

Who takes this?
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

Aside frrom being disinclined to meeting fighters of color, Dempsey hated good boxers, especially crafty, defensive ones who countered well. Toney is far too slick, durable and accurate for Dempsey's adolescent bull rush. Plus, Toney had clout at 190-200. He would stop Jack in his tracks repeatedly and potshot him at will.

Wide, wide decision in favor of Toney with Dempsey on the mat at least once.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

I don't believe the Irishman ever stepped into the ring past 160 or so. You'd have to bloat the piss out of him to make him a similar weight. I'd have to give it to Toney. NJ had fought bigger men but not better by any stretch of the imagination of similar size. Now, 160 vs 160? Interesting match.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
I don't believe the Irishman ever stepped into the ring past 160 or so. You'd have to bloat the piss out of him to make him a similar weight. I'd have to give it to Toney. NJ had fought bigger men but not better by any stretch of the imagination of similar size. Now, 160 vs 160? Interesting match.

Play the game, Ox
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:51 PM   #5
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

prime for prime would be a better question...and more understandable given 'boxers ears' point about blowing dempsey up in weight.

primes....dempsey for me
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:53 PM   #6
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
I don't believe the Irishman ever stepped into the ring past 160 or so. You'd have to bloat the piss out of him to make him a similar weight. I'd have to give it to Toney. NJ had fought bigger men but not better by any stretch of the imagination of similar size. Now, 160 vs 160? Interesting match.
Well played, sir. Well played.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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prime for prime would be a better question...and more understandable given 'boxers ears' point about blowing dempsey up in weight.

primes....dempsey for me

Dempsey fought a ton of times between 180 and 190, he wouldn't be blown up for this at all, Ox is trying to be clever and referring to and identically named Irish boxer who fought at a lower weight division
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
I don't believe the Irishman ever stepped into the ring past 160 or so. You'd have to bloat the piss out of him to make him a similar weight. I'd have to give it to Toney. NJ had fought bigger men but not better by any stretch of the imagination of similar size. Now, 160 vs 160? Interesting match.
I think he was more 150 than anything.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

ah...nonpieral (?)
feel like a clown now.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:58 PM   #10
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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ah...nonpieral (?)
feel like a clown now.

I had to Google it
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

Everyone has to make that joke at least once and it's nice when you get somebody.

Dempsey would win on points. Too much gun. Counter-punching is great and they are scoring punches of course but in a 200lb contest the eye-catching bone-jarring shots become the deciding factor.

Yes, Dempsey was uncomfortable with superb boxers but he dominated at least three of them in Brennan, Miske and Gibbons. I don't believe, for one second, that Toney is more difficult, to fight, to hit than Gibbons. Dempsey forces Toney onto the defensive enough for him to pick up the necessary number of rounds.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Originally Posted by nufc_jay View Post
Dempsey fought a ton of times between 180 and 190, he wouldn't be blown up for this at all, Ox is trying to be clever and referring to and identically named Irish boxer who fought at a lower weight division
Seriously, that would arguably be a more sensible match up.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Everyone has to make that joke at least once and it's nice when you get somebody.

Dempsey would win on points. Too much gun. Counter-punching is great and they are scoring punches of course but in a 200lb contest the eye-catching bone-jarring shots become the deciding factor.

Yes, Dempsey was uncomfortable with superb boxers but he dominated at least three of them in Brennan, Miske and Gibbons. I don't believe, for one second, that Toney is more difficult, to fight, to hit than Gibbons. Dempsey forces Toney onto the defensive enough for him to pick up the necessary number of rounds.
How's the list McGrain?

More to the point Dempsey struggled with great movers more than great boxers. And while Toney was the latter, he has never been accused of being the first.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:34 PM   #14
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

Toney has been guilty of only fighting for 'one minute' of the rounds, then he used to not do anything for 2 minutes. Dempsey would probably be in his face constantly. I like Dempsey in this match up, but not without going through hell first with Toney's defensive and counter punching abilities.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:03 PM   #15
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Default Re: Jack Dempsey vs James Toney @ 190 Catchweight

It took a monstrous, giant hitter to bother an ancient, fat Toney with power.

It took a rather spindly, late-stage boxer to frustrate and make Dempsey sweat with good boxing.

Toney. And it's not even that close.
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