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Old 12-02-2012, 06:15 AM   #736
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Default Re: ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

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Possibly not even the Dutch G.O.A.T.
Most accomplished Dutch in Muaythai for sure. who else is their Rob Kaman?
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:39 AM   #737
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Fair.
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:55 AM   #738
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Most accomplished Dutch in Muaythai for sure. who else is their Rob Kaman?
Micheal Lieuwfat was class and fought many top Thais of the 90s very often on the same cards as both Dekkers and Kamen. Ivan Hippolyte was also a personal fav. They boyh deserve some vids being posted on this thread, when I can grab some time. (On the iPhone now).
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:01 AM   #739
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Default Re: ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

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Micheal Lieuwfat was class and fought many top Thais of the 90s very often on the same cards as both Dekkers and Kamen. Ivan Hippolyte was also a personal fav. They boyh deserve some vids being posted on this thread, when I can grab some time. (On the iPhone now).
Not downing Dutch in Muaythai. just that I dont think any else can be seen on the level as Dekkers.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:44 AM   #740
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Default Re: ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

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Not downing Dutch in Muaythai. just that I dont think any else can be seen on the level as Dekkers.
I agree with you Yaca not on Dekkers level. Lieu fat never won much against Thais of note and Ivan wasn't as prolific, but both were quality. I was just giving them a shout as people often forget them. I've been meaning to do a Hippolyte post for ages anyway.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:56 AM   #741
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I agree with you Yaca not on Dekkers level. Lieu fat never won much against Thais of note and Ivan wasn't as prolific, but both were quality. I was just giving them a shout as people often forget them. I've been meaning to do a Hippolyte post for ages anyway.
more than a few vids of Hippolyte on Dailymotion heres probably his greatest win in his fight against Jomhod:

quality of the vid sucks...
[DM]xj5y12[/DM]



Comentators suck big time! I wonder about the accuracy of those stats in the beginning of the vid. Jomhod only having 30 or so fights? Also it states that Hippolyte and Jomhod were 19 at the time of this fight when Ivan was born in 1964 and this fight happened in 1990. I think these stats are not reliable to say the least! But I was surprised that even though this fight took place in Pheonix, AZ the ruleset seems to be FTR.

I found this interview as well. You might find interesting. I would like to know more about Hippolyte.

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Last edited by yaca you; 12-02-2012 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:50 PM   #742
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Default Re: ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

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more than a few vids of Hippolyte on Dailymotion heres probably his greatest win in his fight against Jomhod:

quality of the vid sucks...
[dm]xj5y12[/dm]

Comentators suck big time! I wonder about the accuracy of those stats in the beginning of the vid. Jomhod only having 30 or so fights? Also it states that Hippolyte and Jomhod were 19 at the time of this fight when Ivan was born in 1964 and this fight happened in 1990. I think these stats are not reliable to say the least! But I was surprised that even though this fight took place in Pheonix, AZ the ruleset seems to be FTR.

I found this interview as well. You might find interesting. I would like to know more about Hippolyte.

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Great post, great vid and great interview Yaca!

Ivan Hippolyte one of the many great mystery men of that era, great warriors whose names are victims to time. I remember him and watched loads of his fights back then, a top product of the mighty Vos gym but other than that I know little about him outside the ring. Interesting interview and a great clip although a bit of a strange fight and I don’t think FTRs. Looked like no elbows and the commentators if you can call them that mentioned a 5 second clinch rule (?). Jomhod’s record at the beginning isn’t right that’s’ for sure, probably should of read nearer 150 fights, so I wonder about the weight?!?! (That highlights something special about Ivan, he seems to be the Pacman of MT, in his career he seems to have gone from welterweight to heavyweight! Hoost’s sparring partner for years.)

I think harking back to that period Thais who came over knew that the Europeans basically had good hands and feet but no clinch skills and minimal knee understanding (basically the early stages of what’s called “Dutch Muay Thai”), so Jomhod planned to walk him down, counter Ivan’s powerful hands with knees and try to take his legs away from him when at range. Although I think he found Ivan’s physical strength and kicks more powerful than expected, was Jomhod light at the weight? Maybe, he looks the smaller man and that wasn’t uncommon back then for the Thai to be giving weight.

About the stoppage, I think Jomhod was starting to impose himself a bit in the 2nd and was abit unlucky to get caught by a peach of an uppercut, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I reckon Jomhod would’ve ground out an ugly win if he’d survived the round. Either way a massive win for Ivan against a famed double stadium champ.

Many westerners realised and understood their lack of overall skills in comparison to the Thais, so a common strategy against a Thai was to try swarm and stop him in the first two with superior boxing skills, catch them quick and cold before he traditionally “woke up” in the 3rd, but if that didn’t work you better make sure you got something left before the hellfire starts in the 3rd! Still kinda true today, but less so as westerners have developed and have got more skills so can “last” longer…..

For comparison here’s Jomhod taking on the mighty Diamond Dekkers around 5 years on from the Hippolyte fight on the Kings B-Day 96.( Funny, two days ago he was at the press conference in Bangkok of this years Kings B-Day event!) Dekkers style was always great for making fights look ***y, always classy! Dekkers did well and stayed safe in this one against a a larger Jomhod who used his size, power and technique to control the fight and negate Dekkers main weapons.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Oy5zmjR2_Q[/ame]


Hippolyte was a childhood hero for me as were most of that bunch of pioneering Dutch fighters, although Hippolyte and Dekkers really stood out for me. For me in the late 80s and early 90s Holland seemed to be the centre of the Muay Thai world, back then before internet and satellite TV Thailand seemed a very very very long way away. The only access most British fighters had to what was happening in Holland, France and Thailand were VDO tapes that would come sometimes months or even years after the fights happened and were pretty rare. You never really knew when a big fight was happening unless you had someone in the gym who’d just come back from Holland or Thailand, it was very rare for UK martial arts magazines to publish anything about MT unless it was from the UK and at that time it was mostly about kickboxing. Tapes from Thailand were rare and had this magical gold dust feel about them, I remember whenever I would get a new tape the mega excitement I’d have before I put it in the VDO machine. I’d have to order them by mail order and they’d be in Thai so you never had any clue about who, where or what was happening but it was magical…..Later once I moved out to BKK and learnt to speak Thai it was a revelation to meet people and see places I’d seen years before in those magical tapes, amazing. To the young guys, I know it’s only 20 years ago, but you can’t believe the difference the internet and digital technology has made!

Anyway, I digress back to magical Holland…..when I think of that time three words loom massive in my mind Vos, Mejiro, & Chakuriki the three legendary gyms that have done more for the world’s non Thai Muay Thai legacy than another gyms outside Thailand. Holy, holy holy places of MT worship we should all pay homage to. Thom Harinck of Chakuriki as well demands absolute homage as probably “the man” who took MT to the top in Europe. Totally devoted to the sport taking it from a marginal, misunderstood sport in Holland to a sought after premier striking sport (although as the recent Badr Hari case shows actually still a misunderstood sport by the authorities.They are thinking of banning it in one town!!!!). He found and crafted many great fighters & champions, dedicating his life to MT. Check out the great man in action below (On the mic in the yellow jacket, be patient it’s worth it…….):

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbYxTV6pkz4[/ame]
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Now wasn’t he classy! This clip epitomises the how misunderstood MT was in basically a kickboxing age outside of Thailand. A great advertisement for why you should never pit MT fighter vs Kickboxers!!! Saekson Sit. Muay Thai vs Rod Kei who was a very good kickboxer back then. I remember watching this around that time maybe the early 90s, the fight was in 89 another one of those great Thailand vs the world cards you used to get back then, notice the white “Mita” shorts I’m always going on about, if you see those shorts in the opposite corner run…………………..

Last edited by boranbkk; 12-18-2012 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:59 PM   #743
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Default Re: ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

Sigh. Another brilliant post Boran.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:31 PM   #744
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Default Re: ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

We haven't posted this classic battle here yet, but boy does it deserve to be on here. In Thailand it's widely considered to be THE fight of the Golden Age cos of its relentless action from start to finish.

It features our favourite ATG nutcase "Rambo" Pongsiri Por. Ruamruedee (Red) vs famed knee specialist Pirotnoi Sor. Siamchai nicknamed "Lurd Lek" which roughly translates as "Steel Blood" or "Blood of Steel".

Anyway, Lumpinee Stadium - 25.07.1989 - @ 112lbs

3 cuts within the first minute of the fight! I warn you.............THIS IS MT ATG WAAARRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!


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Last edited by boranbkk; 12-18-2012 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:10 AM   #745
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Default Re: ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

Nice weigh
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:31 AM   #746
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Default Re: ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

Mind if I chime in a bit? Netrnoi Sor Vorasingh - how good/great could he have been?


Thanks!
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:57 AM   #747
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Default Re: ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

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Originally Posted by boranbkk View Post
We haven't posted this classic battle here yet, but boy does it deserve to be on here. In Thailand it's widely considered to be THE fight of the Golden Age cos of its relentless action from start to finish.

It features our favourite ATG nutcase "Rambo" Pongsiri Por. Ruamruedee (Red) vs famed knee specialist Pirotnoi Sor. Siamchai nicknamed "Lurd Lek" which roughly translates as "Steel Blood" or "Blood of Steel".

Anyway, Lumpinee Stadium - 25.07.1989 - @ 112lbs

3 cuts within the first minute of the fight! I warn you.............THIS IS MT ATG WAAARRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!


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Wow, i can only imagine what the callers were saying, the translation or even subtitles would be full on.
What a war...
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:55 AM   #748
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Default Re: ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

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Mind if I chime in a bit? Netrnoi Sor Vorasingh - how good/great could he have been?


Thanks!
Already peaked and dropped off when he died.

Ace though; didn't have the luxury of a straw weight division either. Shame there's no footage but had some solid wins and mixed in the highest calibre you can imagine for the lower weights.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:38 AM   #749
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Default Re: ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

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Already peaked and dropped off when he died.

Ace though; didn't have the luxury of a straw weight division either. Shame there's no footage but had some solid wins and mixed in the highest calibre you can imagine for the lower weights.

Thank you for the feedback. Care if I pick you guys' brains some more?

Samart Payakaroon, how impressive was his win over the aforementioned Vorasingh for it being just his debut?



Also, came across a forum on Khaosai Galaxy: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. Here's a post from it:

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He could of been greater if he fought the other great boxers around his weight like Orlando Canizales, Raul Perez, Wilfredo Vasquez, Sung-kil Moon, Jiro Watanabe, Gilberto Roman and others.

His resume doesn't pull through for him at all his best win is what, a way past it Orano ?, that's awful considering the people he could of fought.

Watanabe ducked him, don't see any excuse for him not fighting the others other then him or his promoters wanting to stay in his own country.
Is this broadly accurate on Galaxy?
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:45 AM   #750
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Default Re: ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

WATANABE didn't duck him he fought Thai Olympian Payao Poontarat, more highly regarded at the time (an who beat Jiro first time IMO)

Apart from that I thought it was one of my posts Agree wholeheartedly.

Samart is the man/boy in my avatar. Amazing win for a first fight but naturally bigger than Netrnoi.

Samart is arguably the most talented fighter ever. I mean that.
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