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Old 12-20-2012, 04:04 AM   #16
dempsey1234
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Default Re: My first steps into training and coaching..

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Originally Posted by BoxinScienceUSA View Post
for me, "old school" means "traditional".


someone who trains old school could very well use pushups instead of plyo ball pass. and most of the old timers i've worked with talk about how all they did, when they were young, for the first 6 months was a jab. now-a-days too many coaches try to teach tricks too early.


There's a balance between the old and the new. as a new trainer, stick with the fundamentals for your team's foundation.

good luck on your journey and check out this FREE online book by a really solid new school coach with old school wisdom.

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Well said, a touch of the glove to you, respect.
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:36 AM   #17
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So after years of deliberating and procrastinating. I've decided to take the plunge and start training young boxers. I'm ganna train my son anyway, who's not yet in his teens, but i'm also ganna start to hopefully train others. I've spent time learning and helping out young amateurs in the past. Now the plan is to get into it more and dedicate more time.

I have a bit of an old school approach to things.

So, any advise for me fellas as i take this journey?

Oh and if anyone is ever in Islington ABC, say hello.
I just checked out the Islington website. Whoa, look no further there seems to be a wealth of experience and sensible approach to things, the sparring there must be amazing. Ask questions, think about what kind of coach you want to be. Think of the fighters state of mind, thats important too.
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:24 AM   #18
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Default Re: My first steps into training and coaching..

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Maybe some people when they say 'old school' mean working hard and focusing on skills, others like yourself when you say 'old school' mean being a backwards ass re**** who is scared of any advancements and growth. Old school is an ambiguous term so I'm asking him what he meant. Is that alright? Mind your own business, I don't want any input from you.
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:22 AM   #19
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Default Re: My first steps into training and coaching..

Im told the principles of coaching at the Club are Good. Are the same as when it started, which is good to here .
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:22 AM   #20
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Default Re: My first steps into training and coaching..

As far as you training your son, keep in mind that you have a time luxury you will not necessarily have when you begin training kids in a gym. You need to take advantage of that if your intention is to teach your son how to fight for real. You'll read a ton of advice to teach him how to move first, with the idea that this teaches balance. This is 100% counter productive.
To teach balance and everything else, start with proper punching technique. DRILL that into his mind and body. Teach him to throw endless combinations without moving his feet, other than to shift his weight. No "stepping" with punches. That teaches bad habits; that is how you end up with a guy that gets his feet too far apart.
Once he has mastered that proper punching technique, the rest comes easy. He'll catch onto the movement right away, and keep on balance because he'll understand what he is trying to accomplish, why his feet need to be in a certain place. It will also help you to teach this down the line, how to move your weight to avoid punches while always being in a spot to punch back effectively.
You'll find, over time working with young guys, that they hit a turning point in their ability to move well. You'll see 11, 12, 13 years olds that are awkward and sluggish in their footwork become very fluent right around the 14th birthday. Why, I don't know (I'm ignorant of physiology!!) but this happens an awful lot. You can't let it mess with your mind or your approach. Trust in the foundation you set.
I cannot emphasize how essential it is to teach proper punching right out the gate. If you want to create a truly accomplished fighter, one that molds offense and defense, you'll start there. This becomes harder later on, when you are trying to teach 20 kids a night and trying to give each the attention he or she deserves. There is a lot of frustration there, if you care about what you are doing, and you'll develope ways to do your best.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:05 AM   #21
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Default Re: My first steps into training and coaching..

Great post greynotsoold wish u was my trainer, love the way you explain things.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:41 AM   #22
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Default Re: My first steps into training and coaching..

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold View Post
As far as you training your son, keep in mind that you have a time luxury you will not necessarily have when you begin training kids in a gym. You need to take advantage of that if your intention is to teach your son how to fight for real. You'll read a ton of advice to teach him how to move first, with the idea that this teaches balance. This is 100% counter productive.
To teach balance and everything else, start with proper punching technique. DRILL that into his mind and body. Teach him to throw endless combinations without moving his feet, other than to shift his weight. No "stepping" with punches. That teaches bad habits; that is how you end up with a guy that gets his feet too far apart.
Once he has mastered that proper punching technique, the rest comes easy. He'll catch onto the movement right away, and keep on balance because he'll understand what he is trying to accomplish, why his feet need to be in a certain place. It will also help you to teach this down the line, how to move your weight to avoid punches while always being in a spot to punch back effectively.
You'll find, over time working with young guys, that they hit a turning point in their ability to move well. You'll see 11, 12, 13 years olds that are awkward and sluggish in their footwork become very fluent right around the 14th birthday. Why, I don't know (I'm ignorant of physiology!!) but this happens an awful lot. You can't let it mess with your mind or your approach. Trust in the foundation you set.
I cannot emphasize how essential it is to teach proper punching right out the gate. If you want to create a truly accomplished fighter, one that molds offense and defense, you'll start there. This becomes harder later on, when you are trying to teach 20 kids a night and trying to give each the attention he or she deserves. There is a lot of frustration there, if you care about what you are doing, and you'll develope ways to do your best.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: My first steps into training and coaching..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxinScienceUSA View Post
for me, "old school" means "traditional".


someone who trains old school could very well use pushups instead of plyo ball pass. and most of the old timers i've worked with talk about how all they did, when they were young, for the first 6 months was a jab. now-a-days too many coaches try to teach tricks too early.


There's a balance between the old and the new. as a new trainer, stick with the fundamentals for your team's foundation.

good luck on your journey and check out this FREE online book by a really solid new school coach with old school wisdom.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Well you've just given me an example of someone who is uneducated. Repeating a jab for 6 months is pointless. Learning is best achieved when practice is random and varied, that's a fact of motor learning. Also I don't see how a pushup and a plyo ball pass are in any way related, one isn't a substitute for the other.
Still waiting for the OP's definition of old school.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: My first steps into training and coaching..

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold View Post
You'll see 11, 12, 13 years olds that are awkward and sluggish in their footwork become very fluent right around the 14th birthday. Why, I don't know (I'm ignorant of physiology!!) but this happens an awful lot.
This is because around that age the kids gain weight and have more testosterone being produced, they get stronger, their tendons get stiffer. Until that point they are basically girls with compliant (loose) tendons.
When the tendons are stiffer there is less slack to take up so the time between their brain telling them to move and them actually moving is shorter.
That's why sprinters lift heavy weights, increase tendon stiffness to reduce that neuromechanical delay.
That's also a reason not to stretch too much, stretching increases compliancy of tendons so if done excessively you can impair strength and coordination and increase injury risk at the joints.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:55 AM   #25
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Default Re: My first steps into training and coaching..

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Well you've just given me an example of someone who is uneducated. Repeating a jab for 6 months is pointless. Learning is best achieved when practice is random and varied, that's a fact of motor learning. THE DEMPSEY TRANSLATOR: "Forget, throwing jabs for 6 months, try working the jab with other things, one day do this the next that." you get my drift. Make things simple, it's that simple.


Also I don't see how a pushup and a plyo ball pass are in any way related, one isn't a substitute for the other.
Still waiting for the OP's definition of old school.

Jeez, I am glad you reminded me, the clock is still ticking, tick tick tick, name just one punchless wonder who due to modern science, and technology became a ko artist, just one tick tick tick.........
Stick with your definitition of old school, thats the one that's plastered in your brain.
By the way tick tick tick..............
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:31 AM   #26
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Default Re: My first steps into training and coaching..

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Jeez, I am glad you reminded me, the clock is still ticking, tick tick tick, name just one punchless wonder who due to modern science, and technology became a ko artist, just one tick tick tick.........
Stick with your definitition of old school, thats the one that's plastered in your brain.
By the way tick tick tick..............
You're saying I said things I never said. I said punching power can be developed, for example JMM, Pavlik (who was a light punching fighter once upon a time), Haye (with his modern training), Pac (who kept his power as he moved up), Hopkins (against Tarver who he knocked down after not hurting anybody at middleweight for a long time) etc.
If you have **** technique you'll never be a KO puncher and no amount of strength training will ever change that, as I've said all along.
Keep getting emotional and making things up, I enjoy the fact that I've got to you so much
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:03 AM   #27
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That's also a reason not to stretch too much, stretching increases compliancy of tendons so if done excessively you can impair strength and coordination and increase injury risk at the joints.[/quote]
Not true, its of benefit to stretch regular, Helps repair the damage the Eyes do. Helps with coordination and direction of movement, Helps in avoiding injury and bad alinement.
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:48 AM   #28
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Not true, its of benefit to stretch regular, Helps repair the damage the Eyes do. Helps with coordination and direction of movement, Helps in avoiding injury and bad alinement.
Sure, that's what was believed 40 years ago. There's plenty of research that shows that stretching doesn't prevent injury risk and some studies suggest that stretching may even in fact increase injury risk. I don't understand what you mean by damage that the eyes do either. As I explained before stretching is detrimental to coordination when done too often.
Dynamic flexibility is important but static stretching is next to pointless.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:41 AM   #29
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Sure, that's what was believed 40 years ago. There's plenty of research that shows that stretching doesn't prevent injury risk and some studies suggest that stretching may even in fact increase injury risk. I don't understand what you mean by damage that the eyes do either. As I explained before stretching is detrimental to coordination when done too often.
Dynamic flexibility is important but static stretching is next to pointless.
Dynamic is very important, for stabilizing the bodys structure and muscle performance, World class Sprinters I know spend time on it. Eyes are the primary cause of 95% of injuries, plus the Floor, the thing that moves you.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:44 PM   #30
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You're saying I said things I never said. I said punching power can be developed, for example JMM, Pavlik (who was a light punching fighter once upon a time), Haye (with his modern training), Pac (who kept his power as he moved up), Hopkins (against Tarver who he knocked down after not hurting anybody at middleweight for a long time) etc.
If you have **** technique you'll never be a KO puncher and no amount of strength training will ever change that, as I've said all along.
Keep getting emotional and making things up, I enjoy the fact that I've got to you so much
Let's examine your statements for the truth.
"I never said. I said punching power can be developed, for example JMM, JMM, 40ko's, including a one punch ko over Juan Diaz,
Pavlik (who was a light punching fighter once upon a time), PLEASE TELL EVERYBODY WHEN THIS WAS, PAVLIK WAS HAD 14KO'S IN HIS FIRST 15 BOUTS, 6 IN THE FIRST RD, ALL 14KO'S WITHIN 3RDS, 34KO'S OUT OF 42FIGHTS HMMMMMM.....BUSTED
Haye (with his modern training)10 STRAIGHT KO'S STARTING HIS CAREER, 24KO'S IN 28 FIGHTS.
, Pac (who kept his power as he moved up),
PAC, HAD 4 KO'S IN HIS FIRST 10 FIGHTS, WHEN HE WAS 16-17YRS OLD, AS A JRFLY, AS HE STARTED GAINING WEIGHT THE KO'S CAME, @106 HE WAS WEAK IN FACT HIS FIRST KO LOSS CAME IN HIS 11TH FIGHT. IN HIS NEXT 15FIGHTS HE SCORED 13KO'S, AS HE WAS PUTTING ON WEIGHT, SO AGAIN SORRY TO SAY BUSTED. ALL THREE HAD NATURAL POWER, SORRY S&C HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Hopkins (against Tarver who he knocked down after not hurting anybody at middleweight for a long time) etc. BOXING 101, HOPKINS ALSO DROPPED CALZAGHE, WITH PRECISE COUNTERPUNCHES, HE ALWAYS HAD RESPECTABLE POWER NOT A ONE PUNCH GUY, HE CAUGHT TARVER AND CALZAGHE WITH A GOOD SHOT THATS ALL.
Keep getting emotional and making things up, I enjoy the fact that I've got to you so much, AAH, SORRY BUT I DIDN'T AND YOU DIDN'T, I WILL LET YOU FIGURE IT OUT.
NOW GIVING YOU CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE YOU ARE CORRECT A FIGHTER CAN INCREASE HIS POWER, AND I KNOW YOU GONNA HATE THIS, ANY GOOD BOXING COACH CAN DO THAT.
WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO REALIZE THAT BOXING COACHES DO A TERRIFIC JOB AND KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING DESPITE NOT KNOWING THE HUMAN BODY LIKE YOU DO.
HELP SOMEONE WITH A SPECIAL NEED TRAINING-WISE THATS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING.
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