How does your current P4P top 10 look

[Manila]

1.Anderson Silva
2.Georges St Pierre
3.Jon Jones

4.Ben Henderson
5.Junior dos Santos
6.Jose Aldo

7.Dan Henderson
8.Frankie Edgar
9.Renan Barao
10.Johny Hendricks


Some placings explained:

- Aldo doesn't deserve to be #4, his performances against Florian & Hominick were not overly impressive. He hasn't beaten elite level fighters yet, despite his great abilities. His stock will definitely rise if he beats p4p class Edgar

- Dominick Cruz would definitely be in there but inactivity means he is out

- The reason that Hendo is above Edgar is purely that Hendo is 4-0 in his last 4, Edgar is 1-1-2 in his last 4 and 0-2 in his last 2. The only thing keeping Edgar in there at the moment is how good his performance was in the Bendo rematch, because his results don't merit it really

- Hendricks has to be in there because his last three wins have been of the highest quality. The Koscheck fight was close, but JH deserved the decision and Kos is class anyway.



The best of the rest are as follows (most of them were ruled out by me because they haven't beat enough top guys recently):

(in no order)

Velasquez
Cormier
Melendez
Condit
Demetrious Johnson


And those are the only contenders right now IMO.

[Manila]

Originally Posted by thewinfella

Wow !!!

Im actually the only guy who has listed Machida ..................

On ability Machida would of course be top 10, but I don't think his results have been good enough over the last couple of years. A 'loss' to shot Rampage is a black mark, and his wins (shot Couture, shit Bader) do not merit p4p status. Edgar's results have been patchy too of course, but knocking out Maynard, decisively beating BJ Penn in the rematch, and arguably outpointing Ben Henderson in the return fight means so much more than beating Randy and Ryan. Hopefully Lyoto can show his class in the Henderson fight and then actually deserve a place in the top 10 again.

[BobDigi5060]

Originally Posted by thewinfella

Not sure i understand the concept of "roll the dice" between these two

Condit outclassed him, battered his front leg, and generally beat him in every aspect of MMA apart from marching forward, he took 4 of the 5 rounds decisively

CC did outclass Diaz, but he lost every minute against the Champ. He wasn't any higher on my list than he is now, but his stock plummeted. I got Nick Diaz at #10 for the same reasons why Frankie Edgar lies in the middle of the pack... Former Champions who stayed on top and lost a step by way of controversial decisions. The two decisively defended their belts for sometime

I feel D Cruz will be taking up space for the next year (even if he is still champ), but Machida is unworthy. Lyoto Machida couldn't even defend UFC Gold, and was punched out after what most call a gift. Hendo rides high after beating Fedor, and knocking out every other LHW in SF. The loss to Shields was a sign that he couldn't make the MW limit anymore so if I had to I would probably place him right at #10... More accomplishments than Diaz, and more of a dominant force behind caged doors! He seemed to go life and death with Shogun during that WAR, but in the end he won like the best in the world do

As sweet of a fighter as Machida is, he doesn't have the substance to be p4p, and shouldn't be placed above any Champion fighting the best in the World. But, that is what these discussions are for and I applaud you for creating what will be a long standing thread

Far as I'm concerned, Hendo and Machida are fighting for a spot on that list.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by BobDigi5060

Far as I'm concerned, Hendo and Machida are fighting for a spot on that list.

Agreed.

Rory and Condit might be scrapping over the #10 spot too, depending on how good one or both of them look.

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by BobDigi5060

CC did outclass Diaz, but he lost every minute against the Champ. He wasn't any higher on my list than he is now, but his stock plummeted. I got Nick Diaz at #10 for the same reasons why Frankie Edgar lies in the middle of the pack... Former Champions who stayed on top and lost a step by way of controversial decisions. The two decisively defended their belts for sometime

I feel D Cruz will be taking up space for the next year (even if he is still champ), but Machida is unworthy. Lyoto Machida couldn't even defend UFC Gold, and was punched out after what most call a gift. Hendo rides high after beating Fedor, and knocking out every other LHW in SF. The loss to Shields was a sign that he couldn't make the MW limit anymore so if I had to I would probably place him right at #10... More accomplishments than Diaz, and more of a dominant force behind caged doors! He seemed to go life and death with Shogun during that WAR, but in the end he won like the best in the world do

As sweet of a fighter as Machida is, he doesn't have the substance to be p4p, and shouldn't be placed above any Champion fighting the best in the World. But, that is what these discussions are for and I applaud you for creating what will be a long standing thread

Far as I'm concerned, Hendo and Machida are fighting for a spot on that list.

Diaz ............ is this in reference to his reign as SF champion? because if it is, he cannot in any way shape or form be compared to Frankie Edgar, Edgar was the man who beat the man, TWICE! Diaz was the man who was fighting middle level guys, and beating them! claiming to be a "world champion".

Dan Henderson is Dan Henderson but im sorry, he's done! he's got nothing left, he has absolutely zero business in the current top 10 P4P list. I salute the man's courage and i salute his services to mixed martial arts, but he's not an elite fighter, not today, and the top 10 p4p only has room for elite!

I have to dis-agree with the what seems like the whole forum about Machida, stylistically Shogun had his number, he did not lose that fight against Rampage, he claims he was ill against Jones and was advised not to fight ???, not sure, we'll never know, his reluctance to go looking for the champ may suggest otherwise, he's now on a run of form, which for me see's this unique top draw fighter back into P4P contention, i have a spot for Machida like i do Velasquez, he will be back, and i hope they give him Phil Davis or Alexander Gustaffson because IMHO he'd obliterate both of them!

Like you say Sir, its always good to debate

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by Manila

On ability Machida would of course be top 10, but I don't think his results have been good enough over the last couple of years. A 'loss' to shot Rampage is a black mark, and his wins (shot Couture, shit Bader) do not merit p4p status. Edgar's results have been patchy too of course, but knocking out Maynard, decisively beating BJ Penn in the rematch, and arguably outpointing Ben Henderson in the return fight means so much more than beating Randy and Ryan. Hopefully Lyoto can show his class in the Henderson fight and then actually deserve a place in the top 10 again.

Machida has done what any top fighter does, he's finished what has been put in front of him, he will absolutely annihilate Gustaffson, without a shadow of a doubt, having long lims and a good reach may be enough to keep other strikers off, but not pure strikers like Machida, Machida will find the hole, and he will hurt him!

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Agreed.

Rory and Condit might be scrapping over the #10 spot too, depending on how good one or both of them look.

Condit finished Rory and has since beaten Nick Diaz, Rory has beaten Penn, it doesnt add up!

Until they fight again Condit is firmly rooted above Rory

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by thewinfella

Condit finished Rory and has since beaten Nick Diaz, Rory has beaten Penn, it doesnt add up!

Until they fight again Condit is firmly rooted above Rory

Yes, but Rory is on the up, whereas I think Condit has plateaued.

Rory is clearly highly motivated for this fight, and he has an aggressive style. He wants to beat Carlos up and stop him. If he does that, then a domination of BJ Penn coupled with a big stoppage of Condit will see him approaching the ass end of the p4p listings, I think. A stoppage or shutout victory over Condit would be a huge statement IMO, and would mark him as a serious contender in probably the most stacked division. Hendricks would still be above him obviously, but Rory would be a serious contender on the rise.

Personally, I don't have Cruz in my thinking because of inactivity, and I don't have Hendo there either because I think there are too many unknowns with him. He's 42, coming off a couple of injuries, hasn't fought in over a year and when he did he went life and death with a guy who a couple of LHWs have pretty much walked over.

P4P top 5 career for Hendo, but until I see him beat Machida I don't see him as one of the ten biggest threats competing in the sport in 2013.

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Yes, but Rory is on the up, whereas I think Condit has plateaued.

Rory is clearly highly motivated for this fight, and he has an aggressive style. He wants to beat Carlos up and stop him. If he does that, then a domination of BJ Penn coupled with a big stoppage of Condit will see him approaching the ass end of the p4p listings, I think. A stoppage or shutout victory over Condit would be a huge statement IMO, and would mark him as a serious contender in probably the most stacked division. Hendricks would still be above him obviously, but Condit would be a serious contender on the rise.

Personally, I don't have Cruz in my thinking because of inactivity, and I don't have Hendo there either because I think there are too many unknowns with him. He's 42, coming off a couple of injuries, hasn't fought in over a year and when he did he went life and death with a guy who a couple of LHWs have pretty much walked over.

P4P top 5 career for Hendo, but until I see him beat Machida I don't see him as one of the ten biggest threats competing in the sport in 2013.

He has an aggressive style ?? and Condit does not

I agree btw, if Rory does decisively beat Condit it launches him into the upper echelon, but it sounds more like youve already played this fantasy out in your mind, or on your Xbox, Condit does not lose fights decisively! in-fact, its Rory who needs to worry about being finished, like last time

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by thewinfella

He has an aggressive style ?? and Condit does not

I agree btw, if Rory does decisively beat Condit it launches him into the upper echelon, but it sounds more like youve already played this fantasy out in your mind, or on your Xbox, Condit does not lose fights decisively! in-fact, its Rory who needs to worry about being finished, like last time

Of course Condit has an aggressive style. I'm a huge fan of Carlos, his fighting style, his skills, fighting spirit and the way he speaks and carries himself.

But I do back Rory to beat him in a war. Not for certain - Condit is too good to pick anyone against him with full confidence, GSP included - but I reckon Rory will take it. That's why I said that if Rory can stop him or sweep the cards, that would be a huge statement. Rory's been talked about as a potential champion for a long time, and if he decisively gets the better of Carlos then it'll be the first true confirmation that the hype is really legit.

And Rory is now established enough that a win for Condit vaults him right back onto the p4p list. Nobody can wave away a clear victory over this version of Rory like it's a given. That's why I like this fight. Because if either man wins clearly then it puts him right in the thick of the most stacked division, and if either of them loses it's not a massive setback because they're both top-quality legit guys and everyone knows it.

[greathamza]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Y I don't have Hendo there either because I think there are too many unknowns with him. He's 42, coming off a couple of injuries, hasn't fought in over a year and when he did he went life and death with a guy who a couple of LHWs have pretty much walked over.

P4P top 5 career for Hendo, but until I see him beat Machida I don't see him as one of the ten biggest threats competing in the sport in 2013.

Hendo last loss was against Jake Shields who many had in their p4p top 10 at the time and before that against Anderson Silva for the ufc gold so its not like he has lost to anyone outside of the p4p top 10 aside from maybe his loss agains miasaki (?) ages ago in pride

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by greathamza

Hendo last loss was against Jake Shields who many had in their p4p top 10 at the time and before that against Anderson Silva for the ufc gold so its not like he has lost to anyone outside of the p4p top 10 aside from maybe his loss agains miasaki (?) ages ago in pride

At age 42, coming off multiple injuries and a year's worth of inactivity following a life and death struggle with Shogun (who Gustafsson just beat easily) - I don't see him as being one of the 10 most dangerous fighters in the sport.

All-time legacy? Top five pound for pound.

Right now, at this moment? I'll have to see him beat Machida first.

[greathamza]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

At age 42, coming off multiple injuries and a year's worth of inactivity following a life and death struggle with Shogun (who Gustafsson just beat easily) - I don't see him as being one of the 10 most dangerous fighters in the sport.

All-time legacy? Top five pound for pound.

Right now, at this moment? I'll have to see him beat Machida first.

He is getting up there in age but look at Anderson Silva he is also up there in age but its not like people slide him down the list because of it or maybe they are but they shouldnt as long a he performs.
Injuries are always a question mark we wont know until he comes back so i see where you are coming from.
Hendo had shogun losing pretty bad in the first 3 rounds and that he gasses in round 4 and 5 isnt a surprise for me and it shouldnt be for anyone else either Hendo isnt exactly known for his endless gas tank.
If the fight ended after 3 rounds would you not have said that Hendo took care of Shogun like we never seen before bar the Jones fight?

[rekcutnevets]

Anderson
GSP
Jones
Aldo
Edgar
Ben Henderson
Dos Santos
Gilbert Melendez
Renan Barao
Demetrius Johnson

This was done quickly, but with some thought. None of my positions are firm, but the fighters in my top 3 are my top 3 fighters regardless of their order.

I don't care what official decisions are, I consider who I think wins to be the better fighter. I thought Edgar defeated Henderson in their rematch, so I think he is a better fighter at the moment.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by greathamza

He is getting up there in age but look at Anderson Silva he is also up there in age but its not like people slide him down the list because of it or maybe they are but they shouldnt as long a he performs.
Injuries are always a question mark we wont know until he comes back so i see where you are coming from.
Hendo had shogun losing pretty bad in the first 3 rounds and that he gasses in round 4 and 5 isnt a surprise for me and it shouldnt be for anyone else either Hendo isnt exactly known for his endless gas tank.
If the fight ended after 3 rounds would you not have said that Hendo took care of Shogun like we never seen before bar the Jones fight?

Anderson is squashing everybody with ease, and sits comfortably on top of his division. Hendo doesn't. And Hendo is several years older than Anderson - 42 is a lot different than 37, especially with Hendo's injuries and inactivity.

Also, Hendo-Shogun was an ATG fight, but I wasn't THAT impressed with Hendo's performance. Good win, but Gustafsson beat Shogun quite a bit easier and took a hell of a lot less punishment doing it, and nobody is pushing him for p4p consideration.

Not trying to compare Hendo and Gus's careers obviously. But at this point in time, I don't think that Hendo is one of the 10 most dangerous fighters in MMA. There are too many question marks over him based primarily on his injuries, time away from the cage and advanced age. But a clear win over Machida will put him in there again, I reckon.