Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-24-2012, 10:17 AM   #46
burt bienstock
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,640
vCash: 500
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
You are far too an emotional poster to have any debate with.

Devolving inton accusations of personal bias is a bit low, even for you.

I'm sure as a white guy from north England I have every reason to favour the Philly fighter or the Argentine so you must be spot on.

Don't waste your time replying to my previous post, this petty insult exchange interests me not.
sir, I can live with not responding to you. By the way when did I insult you? And what has race to do with this whole subject ? You have a right to your opinions but not to your own facts. If as you implied Harry Greb was a better P4P fighter than Monzon or Hagler [in your own words] than he was a better MW as that is what Harry Greb is defined as by historians...
And yes I will NOT waste my time with you as u WISH. Sayonara!
burt bienstock is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-24-2012, 10:56 AM   #47
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,447
vCash: 330
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
sir, I can live with not responding to you. By the way when did I insult you? And what has race to do with this whole subject ? You have a right to your opinions but not to your own facts. If as you implied Harry Greb was a better P4P fighter than Monzon or Hagler [in your own words] than he was a better MW as that is what Harry Greb is defined as by historians...
And yes I will NOT waste my time with you as u WISH. Sayonara!
Declaring any pick for Hagler as being warped by personal bias. I'd like to think I'm a bit more objective than that.

I'm saying he achieved less in the mw division than Hagler did but achieved more overall than Hagler did.

I believe you do Greb a disservice by thinking of him as just a MW. It is my humble opinion he was even greater as a LHW.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 12:11 PM   #48
burt bienstock
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,640
vCash: 500
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Declaring any pick for Hagler as being warped by personal bias. I'd like to think I'm a bit more objective than that.

I'm saying he achieved less in the mw division than Hagler did but achieved more overall than Hagler did.

I believe you do Greb a disservice by thinking of him as just a MW. It is my humble opinion he was even greater as a LHW.
Did less than Hagler did as a middleweight ? I think not. Just get a copy of "the Fearless Harry Greb", and you will see the terrific middleweights that Greb licked...Dozens of the top MWS of his early and middle years...And some of Britain's finest also...He loved to fight so he would tackle bigger men to keep busy, any size, any style, any colour to keep active....But when required he trained more to get under 160 to defend his crown...
The thread reads "Greatest MW once and for all", not who achieved more>
And Greb's MW challengers were as good if not better than you think...
Happy Holidays...
burt bienstock is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 12:21 PM   #49
Surf-Bat
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,016
vCash: 500
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Greb beat middleweights in over the weight matches. People were able to distinguish between that and a true light-heavyweight contest then.

If memory serves, Jeff Smith weighed around 165 pounds for their 5/19/17 fight. But nobody considered him a "light-heavy" at that time. Just a middleweight who didn't need to meet any weight requirements.
Surf-Bat is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 12:37 PM   #50
Colonel Sanders
NSB defector
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theron View Post
I made a thread asking about a fantasy fight about Monzon vs Hagler but a lot of people seemed to disagree with me that Harry Greb was the greatest Middleweight of all time which i definatley think he is, if he's not who is to you?

The Criteria i picked Greb on was pretty much just amount of quality opponents beaten as we can't actually watch him fight but we can see his record of beating 18 future present or past champions, defeating men in higher weight classes than himself, i love this quote about Greb it sums up why i think he's the greatest middleweight ever
“Greb may have been the greatest fighter, pound-for-pound, who ever lived. Certainly, he was among the top 2 or 3. He combined the speed of Ray Robinson, the durability of Jim Jeffries, the stamina of Henry Armstrong, and the unbridled ferocity of Stanley Ketchel with a will to win unsurpassed in the annals of sport. At his peak, he was unbeatable, defeating virtually every middleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight of his generation. A great, great fighter.”
once and for all....
Colonel Sanders is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 12:42 PM   #51
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 3,918
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

This whole thread.
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 12:43 PM   #52
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,447
vCash: 330
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surf-Bat View Post
Greb beat middleweights in over the weight matches. People were able to distinguish between that and a true light-heavyweight contest then.

If memory serves, Jeff Smith weighed around 165 pounds for their 5/19/17 fight. But nobody considered him a "light-heavy" at that time. Just a middleweight who didn't need to meet any weight requirements.
I agree with that. I give a few pounds leeway fir non title fights.

He was still better as a lhw for me.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 12:45 PM   #53
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,447
vCash: 330
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Did less than Hagler did as a middleweight ? I think not. Just get a copy of "the Fearless Harry Greb", and you will see the terrific middleweights that Greb licked...Dozens of the top MWS of his early and middle years...And some of Britain's finest also...He loved to fight so he would tackle bigger men to keep busy, any size, any style, any colour to keep active....But when required he trained more to get under 160 to defend his crown...
The thread reads "Greatest MW once and for all", not who more>
And Greb's MW challengers were as good if not better than you think...
Happy Holidays...
achievement is a measure of greatness, as is resume and skillset. I can't argue Greb above Hagler on any of those 3 criteria under the mw limit.

Now if you're trying to argue who the greatest boxer to ever compete in the mw divsion is, well I'd say Greb is above Hagler in that category but below ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 12:47 PM   #54
Colonel Sanders
NSB defector
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Definitely not Hagler for me. He never impressed me that much.

I vote Monzon.
Colonel Sanders is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 12:49 PM   #55
Colonel Sanders
NSB defector
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan View Post
This whole thread.
Colonel Sanders is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 12:49 PM   #56
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 3,918
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Sanders View Post
Definitely not Hagler for me. He never impressed me that much.

I vote Monzon.
Hagler never impressed you? Seriously? What about him didn't you like?

Not trying to be a smart-ass, genuinely curious. To me he's one of the toughest, most well-rounded fighters in recent history.
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 01:28 PM   #57
Colonel Sanders
NSB defector
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan View Post
Hagler never impressed you? Seriously? What about him didn't you like?

Not trying to be a smart-ass, genuinely curious. To me he's one of the toughest, most well-rounded fighters in recent history.
I understand, I usually raise eyebrows when I say Hagler never impressed me. To be honest, I have a hard time picking precisely why I feel that way about him.

I guess he could be kinda sloppy, offensively and defensively. His offense didn't look that purposeful all the time. Sometimes he boxed when he needed to fight, sometimes he fought when he needed to box. He could be kinda mechanical, like he's not thinking and setting his opponent up as much as just going through the motions. I don't know, I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong with him, or me.
Colonel Sanders is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 01:33 PM   #58
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 3,918
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Sanders View Post
I understand, I usually raise eyebrows when I say Hagler never impressed me. To be honest, I have a hard time picking precisely why I feel that way about him.

I guess he could be kinda sloppy, offensively and defensively. His offense didn't look that purposeful all the time. Sometimes he boxed when he needed to fight, sometimes he fought when he needed to box. He could be kinda mechanical, like he's not thinking and setting his opponent up as much as just going through the motions. I don't know, I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong with him, or me.

No, that's fair. I'm the same way with Vicente Saldivar. For the life of me, I just don't see this greatness everyone else gushes about. On film, he seems decidedly ordinary to me. I know he's great and the problem lies more with me than anything, but I just don't see it at all.
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 01:36 PM   #59
PhillyPhan69
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 3,879
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Hagler
Monzon
Greb

for me....

But kinda like LW

Leonard
Gans
Duran

there is so little seperating them that I wouldn't find fault with another order, and have changed mine on occasion.
PhillyPhan69 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 01:38 PM   #60
PhillyPhan69
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 3,879
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan View Post
No, that's fair. I'm the same way with Vicente Saldivar. For the life of me, I just don't see this greatness everyone else gushes about. On film, he seems decidedly ordinary to me. I know he's great and the problem lies more with me than anything, but I just don't see it at all.

I am so disappointed to hear you say that!
PhillyPhan69 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013