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Old 12-25-2012, 02:53 AM   #76
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
H, since Nat Fleischer saw Ketchel fight ,he and others rated Ketchel as the greatest MW ever. Until near the end of his life a question in the Ring
Question column, Nat answered a reader asking who was the best MW. ?Fleischer answered Harry Greb... For what it's worth...

Ya but none of those guys were alive to see Haglar fight, so what your saying is irrelevant....Sorry, as usual.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:58 AM   #77
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Ya but none of those guys were alive to see Haglar fight, so what your saying is irrelevant....Sorry, as usual.
Jimmy McLarnin was. He chose Greb over Hags, for what it's worth
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:02 AM   #78
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Definitely not Hagler for me. He never impressed me that much.

I vote Monzon.
Wow....just......wow....I don't even know how to respond to that????
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:41 AM   #79
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw View Post
Ya but none of those guys were alive to see Haglar fight, so what your saying is irrelevant....Sorry, as usual.
I may be "irrelevant" to you, but I know my facts. Being that Nat Fleischer "didn't " live to see Hagler fight [Nat died in 1972], and you did not see Harry Greb fight, than by your own words you are "irrelevant" also...
Great historians rate the greatest American Presidents by their RECORD in office,though never seeing 90% of the Presidents you will agree. And I on the basis of studying the amazing career of Harry Greb for decades and reading volumes of reports from old opponents, trainers and sportswriters
of his times and after, rate him the best MW ever...He as you know had 300 fights in his career tackling everyone from MW to heavyweights,with great success, ducking no one and in his last bout, old, creaky with 300 bouts
was still GOOD ENOUGH to beat the tough, tough southpaw Tiger Flowers
in his LAST bout...Your man Marvin Hagler had but a mere 67 bouts and
was downhill in his loss to Leonard. After 67 fights. Why Harry Greb in one
year had FORTY FIVE fights winning all of them. So though irrelevant
as you label me ,I will say what I believe whether you like it or not S, and
though you call me irrelevant for lauding the great Harry Greb, so be it.
P.S. I know Greb officially lost his last bout to Tiger Flowers, but most of the crowd booed the decision...
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:04 PM   #80
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
I may be "irrelevant" to you, but I know my facts. Being that Nat Fleischer "didn't " live to see Hagler fight [Nat died in 1972], and you did not see Harry Greb fight, than by your own words you are "irrelevant" also...
Great historians rate the greatest American Presidents by their RECORD in office,though never seeing 90% of the Presidents you will agree. And I on the basis of studying the amazing career of Harry Greb for decades and reading volumes of reports from old opponents, trainers and sportswriters
of his times and after, rate him the best MW ever...He as you know had 300 fights in his career tackling everyone from MW to heavyweights,with great success, ducking no one and in his last bout, old, creaky with 300 bouts
was still GOOD ENOUGH to beat the tough, tough southpaw Tiger Flowers
in his LAST bout...Your man Marvin Hagler had but a mere 67 bouts and
was downhill in his loss to Leonard. After 67 fights. Why Harry Greb in one
year had FORTY FIVE fights winning all of them. So though irrelevant
as you label me ,I will say what I believe whether you like it or not S, and
though you call me irrelevant for lauding the great Harry Greb, so be it.
P.S. I know Greb officially lost his last bout to Tiger Flowers, but most of the crowd booed the decision...
This is what I don't like about this place sometimes things are taken to personally on here it's a forum so as such there is bound to be widely differing views on various subjects .for me hagler if in grebs era would of probably had a hundred more fights and still been great given the chance colour permitting and greb no doubt given his fantastic all action fighting style would of been a great in hagler's era . Greb may of had more trouble reigning in his win at all costs as not get DQ'd in the more modern game than with the supposed advances in modern ringcraft
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:31 PM   #81
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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This is what I don't like about this place sometimes things are taken to personally on here it's a forum so as such there is bound to be widely differing views on various subjects .for me hagler if in grebs era would of probably had a hundred more fights and still been great given the chance colour permitting and greb no doubt given his fantastic all action fighting style would of been a great in hagler's era . Greb may of had more trouble reigning in his win at all costs as not get DQ'd in the more modern game than with the supposed advances in modern ringcraft
Mr B, of course there should be different points of views and opinions.
But to be called "irrelevant" because of my opinion choosing Greb over Hagler is foolish and "personal" to me. You can disagree as to who would beat who, but someone shouldn't disparage my thought at choice saying "you are irrelevant as USUAL "...
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:41 PM   #82
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Greb
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:48 PM   #83
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Mr B, of course there should be different points of views and opinions.
But to be called "irrelevant" because of my opinion choosing Greb over Hagler is foolish and "personal" to me. You can disagree as to who would beat who, but someone shouldn't disparage my thought at choice saying "you are irrelevant as USUAL "...
Burt I think the use of the term irrelevant as usual in your direction was wrong and was done so to annoy you to a degree and get a reaction
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:03 PM   #84
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Originally Posted by BUDW View Post
Greb
B. you are now officially deemed "irrelevant"...
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:09 PM   #85
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Burt I think the use of the term irrelevant as usual in your direction was wrong and was done so to annoy you to a degree and get a reaction
Mr B, is that what ESB is coming to for some posters ? To annoy some sincere ,serious minded boxing lovers ? Isn't there enough high blood pressure around ? Thanks for your input Mr B...
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:18 PM   #86
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Mr B, is that what ESB is coming to for some posters ? To annoy some sincere ,serious minded boxing lovers ? Isn't there enough high blood pressure around ? Thanks for your input Mr B...
ESB classic over the last year or so has got a little more that way sadly, but it is still the best classic/historical forum around
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:22 PM   #87
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

I think the majority of arguments here are semantics based.

I reckon most everyone believes Greb is a greater p4p fighter than haglerzon.

I also reckon most everyone believes haglerzon was a greater mw champion than Greb.

Quality of resume when being strict with the divisional limit is debatable.

I think on some level we all agree with each other and are arguing different things.
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:30 PM   #88
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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I think the majority of arguments here are semantics based.

I reckon most everyone believes Greb is a greater p4p fighter than haglerzon.

I also reckon most everyone believes haglerzon was a greater mw champion than Greb.

Quality of resume when being strict with the divisional limit is debatable.

I think on some level we all agree with each other and are arguing different things.
This is as good a summary as could be managed.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:57 PM   #89
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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So the recipe for glory in the middleweight division, is to hide behind the middleweight limit, and fight the occasional welterweight or bulked up lightweight?

Do that, and you are the greatest legend in the divisions history
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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
This is one list that I will never understand.

Monzon and Hagler are pygmies when measured against the resume of the immortal Harry Greb.

How do you end up with Greb between the two of them?
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Originally Posted by janitor
I cannot get my head around the idea that greatness is hiding behind your weight limit


Oh janitor, I'll never forget this one.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:59 PM   #90
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Oh janitor, I'll never forget this one.
I take it that you don't approve?
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