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Old 12-25-2012, 08:33 PM   #91
atigerofold
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Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

I was talking about timing, in throwing a punch....timing is often difficult, you certainly have to wait, and hope that the opponent will repeat an

action, that you can capitalise on. This timing factor relates to nearly all counter punching.......I think a punch that my dad taught us, has faded

into obscurity.....I think the last champion that threw this punch and combination was Lionel Rose......the punch I am talking about is a timed left

rip (often followed by a left hook, then right cross)...the attacking boxer must wait until the opponent throws a left jab......the target is his

diaphram and you will hit hard and temporarily bury your left rip there as you slip or brush away with your right glove, the opponent's left

jab....(the hop up begins precisely, and instantainious as the opponent's left lead is launched...the rapid step or hop up to the punching zone

begins, and you must get your left (leading foot) just inside of the opponent's left foot (only talking about two authodox fighters competing here).

You must get your right foot up approx one foot (old measurement) behind the left foot, and the right foot should provide immense leverage to

your left rip - then hook and right cross) The rip must connect sweetly into the abdomen/diaphram area, and then it is rapidly turned into a left

hook; your right hand is still covering your chin, as your torso slighly recoils back, then twists to deliver and complete the left hook....the right

cross comes through explosively to finish the combo, and then a backward retreat to get your wind back, and to assess the damage you have

caused.

This move must be practised hundreds of times, to gain the measure of where you are, and where you have to be; where your feet are is a huge

factor in the success of this move. Two boxers can practise it open handed, rather than destroy each other; the practise is to deliver the footwork

and three punch move in about 2 - 3 seconds. If the feet aren't placed correctly in the first instance, then the boxer should retreat, and try again.

(the feet must be in the precise position to pull this counter combo off....and as with all counter punches, the move you make should not be telecasted.)

PS: I had to get on here today,and write something; everyone here at my place, is watching the cricket, and I would sooner watch paint dry that

watch cricket.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:53 PM   #92
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Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

What Australian trainers use defensive drill that do not use focus mitts?
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:55 AM   #93
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Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

That is a great question Boxon123; you got me goin now...

Ambrose Palmer never used those catching mitts.

It was always him gloved up, and his protege gloved up. No one ever asked why...who would have ever questioned Palmer on teaching techniques ?

Using mitts is so ARTIFICIAL....it does not replicate what happens in the ring, some of the routines I have seen mitt trainers use, look good, and fierce, and would be much more entertaining with some cowboy music; but these moves are shallow, and often do not LINK with boxing reality, and do not give regard to risk management. I also see these operators throw a horizontal swing as the mitt banger bobs under it, and continues to power away....utter bullshite. I see that sometimes the mitt holders/operators, poke out a tokenry left jab or right cross with the side edge of their mitts, useless, in order to 'keep the boxer on his toes', but this never matches the benefits of a trainer throwing actual punches at you, that you have to ward off or catch in order to deliver. Never in this exchange between mitt holder and mitt banger, do you see both engage in an exchange of a left jab.

Some of you will say, oh, we only use the mitts for fitness; but putting a boxer through this creates moves and groves that a boxer should not engage in....in other words ...it is bad practise. IMO.

The users of these mitts do not calculate the defence strategy or dangers, it is just punch here, now there, now here....and there is only high hope that a routine will match what occurs in the ring.

Last edited by atigerofold; 12-26-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:14 AM   #94
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Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

[quote=atigerofold;14469583]I think a punch that my dad taught us, has faded

into obscurity.....I think the last champion that threw this punch and combination was Lionel Rose......the punch I am talking about is a timed left

rip (often followed by a left hook, then right cross)[quote=atigerofold;14469583]

This punch(combination) is still used by many boxers, although probably not enough trainers in Australia are teaching boys these types of attacks. Russ Anber the Canadian trainer shows this exact combination in one of his training videos with a young David Lemieux.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:11 AM   #95
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Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Quote:
Originally Posted by atigerofold View Post
I was talking about timing, in throwing a punch....timing is often difficult, you certainly have to wait, and hope that the opponent will repeat an

action, that you can capitalise on. This timing factor relates to nearly all counter punching.......I think a punch that my dad taught us, has faded

into obscurity.....I think the last champion that threw this punch and combination was Lionel Rose......the punch I am talking about is a timed left

rip (often followed by a left hook, then right cross)...the attacking boxer must wait until the opponent throws a left jab......the target is his

diaphram and you will hit hard and temporarily bury your left rip there as you slip or brush away with your right glove, the opponent's left

jab....(the hop up begins precisely, and instantainious as the opponent's left lead is launched...the rapid step or hop up to the punching zone

begins, and you must get your left (leading foot) just inside of the opponent's left foot (only talking about two authodox fighters competing here).

You must get your right foot up approx one foot (old measurement) behind the left foot, and the right foot should provide immense leverage to

your left rip - then hook and right cross) The rip must connect sweetly into the abdomen/diaphram area, and then it is rapidly turned into a left

hook; your right hand is still covering your chin, as your torso slighly recoils back, then twists to deliver and complete the left hook....the right

cross comes through explosively to finish the combo, and then a backward retreat to get your wind back, and to assess the damage you have

caused.

This move must be practised hundreds of times, to gain the measure of where you are, and where you have to be; where your feet are is a huge

factor in the success of this move. Two boxers can practise it open handed, rather than destroy each other; the practise is to deliver the footwork

and three punch move in about 2 - 3 seconds. If the feet aren't placed correctly in the first instance, then the boxer should retreat, and try again.

(the feet must be in the precise position to pull this counter combo off....and as with all counter punches, the move you make should not be telecasted.)

PS: I had to get on here today,and write something; everyone here at my place, is watching the cricket, and I would sooner watch paint dry that

watch cricket.
..a good mate of mine..two time Aussie junior flyweight champion Junior Thompson taught that to me when I was about 18 years old..so I practiced it for years and years..under over..exactly as you described..
..though i wasn't good enough to try it in a fight..I'm too slow..I prefered to play it safe jabbin' on the outside..haha
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:58 PM   #96
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Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Darkhorse, I picked this counter, combo, in order to try and detail the exactness in timing, that it requires....it is a difficult punch; sometimes a beezdick of hesitation can fizzle it; or if overused, the expecting opponent, step backs and rapidly left hooks or right crosses you.....if your feet are not keeping up with your fast hands, then all is out of sinc.

(Safe jabbin is never to be under estimated, it is always of high value.)
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:40 PM   #97
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Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Quote:
Originally Posted by atigerofold View Post
Darkhorse, I picked this counter, combo, in order to try and detail the exactness in timing, that it requires....it is a difficult punch; sometimes a beezdick of hesitation can fizzle it; or if overused, the expecting opponent, step backs and rapidly left hooks or right crosses you.....if your feet are not keeping up with your fast hands, then all is out of sinc.

(Safe jabbin is never to be under estimated, it is always of high value.)
Jabbing is everything. What I should say is it's the most important punch. You use it to set up offense you can use as a defense. Can be used to bust up an opponent. There are many more examples of why the jab is so important. Who's up for putting some more in the mix.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:27 AM   #98
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..in that Jack Dempsey book i was talking about..Jack puts major importance on a ramrod jab..a weapon that shocks and breaks a opponent down..

..he describes this technique as firstly starting with a short powerful step in..(trigger step..with a tight high guard)..then combine a little shoulder whirl/jolt..(non telegraphic)..then snap the jab out from the high position..turning it over and striking with a 3 knuckle landing..(left 3 knuckles of the left hand)..done correctly you end up with a fully extended arm..(Jack calls this the power line)..
..and most important..snap it back faster than it went out in..(i hope this made sense)

Last edited by darkhorse; 12-27-2012 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:37 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by atigerofold View Post
Darkhorse, I picked this counter, combo, in order to try and detail the exactness in timing, that it requires....it is a difficult punch; sometimes a beezdick of hesitation can fizzle it; or if overused, the expecting opponent, step backs and rapidly left hooks or right crosses you.....if your feet are not keeping up with your fast hands, then all is out of sinc.

(Safe jabbin is never to be under estimated, it is always of high value.)
..how about a defence against this move being to jab to the spot where he's moving to as he slippes your jab..maybe a little feint to tempt him..
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:19 AM   #100
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Darkhorse: how about a defence against this move being to jab to the spot where he's moving to as he slippes your jab..maybe a little feint to tempt him..

..........................................................................................

There are a some key ways to destroy the delivery and you have stated some of them DHorse; the slip or brush away, has to be instant and quick, and your advance to the punch zone most immediate, to gain that position where there is safety, but no return, and you lever off that gained/advanced position to shoot away; if you are stiffled, or sub-countered because you have telegraphed your move, you can be sure to cop a whack. I think it is probably on the too hard category for a lot of boxers, who are not prepared to hone, and stream line their " dead pan, hey nothing is happening" look, then provide rapid foot placement and rapid hand speed.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:30 AM   #101
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..i suppose we could say that to be a good infighter it takes confidence and rythym/timng honed by years of consistant defensive drills..practiced as close to perfect as possible..until the repetition of the movment is as close to perfect everytime..especially executed on extreme fatigue..
..question..when would you suggest is the best time to practise these drill..early in the night when your fresh..or at the end of a training session when your abit fatigued and have to think abit?
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:35 PM   #102
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Default Re: the method - johnny famechon

Aussie Thread Of The Year 2012/2013
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:47 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
..i suppose we could say that to be a good infighter it takes confidence and rythym/timng honed by years of consistant defensive drills..practiced as close to perfect as possible..until the repetition of the movment is as close to perfect everytime..especially executed on extreme fatigue..
..question..when would you suggest is the best time to practise these drill..early in the night when your fresh..or at the end of a training session when your abit fatigued and have to think abit?
..............................................................................

Your question is great ! I am not being a smart arse here, just keen to give a vibrant answer; I will ask you: when does a 100 metre sprinter practise to explode from his starting block??

I think the practise for this counter combo, needs to be first conducted outside of the gym, or before gym, with two boxers; me and my brother worked at it (in a type of close shadow sparring) in our parents kitchen for hours and hours at a time, and as I said before we used open hands so we wouldnt destroy each other; our exercise was to especially provide the rapid speed movement of the feet to the position where the rapid hand movement of the left rip (and following left hook, right cross) could be unleashed/practised. We made sure during this practise that it was genuine, as we tried hard to stifle each others first movements....(both of us would often baulk with a left jab, and then see the other's rip coming - shift back, throw a right cross that was pulled up).....(obviously, we knew that we had to throw a left jab in order for the other to exercise that first move up....but we threw it out authentically)....this is the type of trust and practise that is required, that free reign to play and explore the total exercise, and to not be severely staggered by the 'punishment' of being hit, and not getting it through to the keeper; in the exercise it became a bit of a game, where we purposefully tried to stifle the other from reaching that first point of positioning to rip......it was fun and cat and mouse practise. We often spoke to each other, with our critique as we worked together..'not fast enough mate'.....'saw it coming"....etc.

I seriously think that there must be time put aside for a boxer to reflect, and slowly practise on his own learning time, agenda also..... To achieve perfection in this most difficult move, doing it on your pat mallone, highly inflates its difficulty; so to get assistance and shadow spar together and practise this move in the way I described, is a better and greater learning tool, with both boxers collaborating to learn this timing, rythmn, pitfalls and preciseness of this move together, and giving instant feedback is the way to go.

At the gym, it can be imagined and practised on the bag, by pushing the punching back, and get it swaying up and back, get into timing mode, and visualise that the left jab is coming at you, and you hop up to the bag as it is heading towards you, you slip or brush the imaginary left lead, as you are stepping up and ripping (in a lightening flash), then hooking and right crossing....it is good gym reinforcement for this counter combo, but the bag cannot tell you that your movement is too predictable, or full of obvioiusness ! (These days, you'd reckon they would have invented a boxing bag that tells you your mistakes !) hahaha

cheers mate.

Last edited by atigerofold; 12-31-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:03 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by atigerofold View Post
That is a great question Boxon123; you got me goin now...

Ambrose Palmer never used those catching mitts.

It was always him gloved up, and his protege gloved up. No one ever asked why...who would have ever questioned Palmer on teaching techniques ?

Using mitts is so ARTIFICIAL....it does not replicate what happens in the ring, some of the routines I have seen mitt trainers use, look good, and fierce, and would be much more entertaining with some cowboy music; but these moves are shallow, and often do not LINK with boxing reality, and do not give regard to risk management. I also see these operators throw a horizontal swing as the mitt banger bobs under it, and continues to power away....utter bullshite. I see that sometimes the mitt holders/operators, poke out a tokenry left jab or right cross with the side edge of their mitts, useless, in order to 'keep the boxer on his toes', but this never matches the benefits of a trainer throwing actual punches at you, that you have to ward off or catch in order to deliver. Never in this exchange between mitt holder and mitt banger, do you see both engage in an exchange of a left jab.

Some of you will say, oh, we only use the mitts for fitness; but putting a boxer through this creates moves and groves that a boxer should not engage in....in other words ...it is bad practise. IMO.

The users of these mitts do not calculate the defence strategy or dangers, it is just punch here, now there, now here....and there is only high hope that a routine will match what occurs in the ring.
Does anyone know of anyone who does Defensive and offensive drills in Australian boxing?
Could this be the reason most Aussies box with their head in the air?
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:15 PM   #105
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I think the problem is related to poor teaching techniques and egotistical behaviour.
Advice: Keep your boxing training and drills relevant, and real.
Don't try to invent new methods, or reinvent the wheel.
Open your minds and let the egotistical behaviours fly out your ears.

Study the method in detail. Look for relevant, real and ROTE (repetition of the exercises) teaching methods, particularly those "must have", (defensive) methods used by brilliant boxing trainers such as Palmer.....and copy them.

PS: and toss out those boxing catcher mitts.

Last edited by atigerofold; 12-31-2012 at 06:53 PM.
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