Donaire vs John next year

[R.I.P Sky]

Donaire tells us that Guillermo Rigondeaux isn't a worthy challenger and must do more to deserve a shot at him. What exactly did Jeffrey Mathebula do to deserve a shot?
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[Lilo]

Originally Posted by thewinfella

You have mis-read what i said Sir,

I said i dont believe he has kicked on since Montiel, and im not understating the Nishioka win, it is classified as a signature win IMO, i just said i believe Nishioka aint that good. Donaire done what was expected of him in clinical fashion, but nobody can say they didnt see it coming!

Let me state this, i believe Donaire to be an extraordinary talent, but his resume does not match that of a special fighter, and its getting worse, the fghts are all there to be made and his promotional company will not make them, why ???, we all know why!

This would not have happened in yester year, Donaire would have fought and cleaned out divisions from SFLW to SBW by now, he has that type of ability, its a dis-service to him and his fans having him knock over outgunned and out skilled guys.

Gamboa may be coming to the end at the very top, throw them in together, thats a mega fight, why the hell not, make the Salido fight while were on the subject, why the hell not!

You really don't think he's 'kicked on' though? Over the last year his opposition have improved markedly for me He couldn't get a big fight for years post-Vic but not he is fighting good to excellent fighters every time, including Chris John.

Obviously I'd love it if he fought Nishioka, Mares, Rigo then John, Salido and Gamboa but unfortunately we all know it doesn't work like that unless there is a super 6

I do think we'll eventually get Donaire-Gamboa but Gamboa may have been beaten by then. Don't think we'll ever get Donaire-Mares

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by Lilo

You really don't think he's 'kicked on' though? Over the last year his opposition have improved markedly for me He couldn't get a big fight for years post-Vic but not he is fighting good to excellent fighters every time, including Chris John.

Obviously I'd love it if he fought Nishioka, Mares, Rigo then John, Salido and Gamboa but unfortunately we all know it doesn't work like that unless there is a super 6

Not really mate

Arum and TR have these guys under the same roof, it can be done, if he really wanted to make Gamboa Donaire at say 128 for arguments sake it could be signed off tomorrow and HBO would grab it with both hands

Edit; sorry ref kicked on - yes ofcourse he's held title's in upper divisions but he could be the #1 P4P fighter in the world with the level of opposition around him, he's got world beaters in the upper, lower and current division he's in, and with his ability he can beat every one of them and look good doing it!, for what its worth i think he'd punch holes through Abner Mares but that isnt gonna stop me crying my ass off for the fight!

[Boxed Ears]

Originally Posted by R.I.P Sky

Donaire tells us that Guillermo Rigondeaux isn't a worthy challenger and must do more to deserve a shot at him. What exactly did Jeffrey Mathebula do to deserve a shot?
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I should think making Ali Funeka look like Alexis Arguello is enough of an accomplishment for any man.

Originally Posted by thewinfella

I dont believe "AVERAGE FANS" are having this debate!

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

I very much doubt it happens unless the reefer and senility hit Arum harder than he can take. That said, if it does happen, unfortunately, I don't think your average "fan" here is capable of understanding how great a match this would be.

It's like the difference between saying I don't think your average child is lonely and I don't think your average child at the orphanage is lonely. You miss out on a huge specifier.

[ishy]

Some of you lot need to calm down. And Arum has said he WANTS to make Donaire/Rigo. The John fight is just one possible fight being discussed. Steve Kim also wrote this:


So what’s next for the consensus 2012 “Fighter of the Year,” Nonito Donaire? Well, Arum isn’t wavering from his comments in Houston (where Donaire blew out Jorge Arce a couple of weeks ago).

“We want him to fight [Guillermo] Rigondeaux. Absolutely.”

So does that mean that any possibility of a Donaire-Abner Mares fight has evaporated?

“I think the Mares fight can be made and we’ll try to get that done,” said Arum, who pointed out that Mares has a WBC mandatory obligation to fulfill. Should that get taken care of (and assuming Donaire also defeats the talented Cuban), Arum stated, “Then what we’ll do is offer Golden Boy a substantial sum of money for Golden Boy and Mares. If they take it, fine; if they don’t take it, we move on.”

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[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

It's like the difference between saying I don't think your average child is lonely and I don't think your average child at the orphanage is lonely. You miss out a huge specification.

[thewinfella]

Nice one Ishy ..............

[R.I.P Sky]

Originally Posted by ishy

Some of you lot need to calm down. And Arum has said he WANTS to make Donaire/Rigo. The John fight is just one possible fight being discussed. Steve Kim also wrote this:


So what’s next for the consensus 2012 “Fighter of the Year,” Nonito Donaire? Well, Arum isn’t wavering from his comments in Houston (where Donaire blew out Jorge Arce a couple of weeks ago).

“We want him to fight [Guillermo] Rigondeaux. Absolutely.”

So does that mean that any possibility of a Donaire-Abner Mares fight has evaporated?

“I think the Mares fight can be made and we’ll try to get that done,” said Arum, who pointed out that Mares has a WBC mandatory obligation to fulfill. Should that get taken care of (and assuming Donaire also defeats the talented Cuban), Arum stated, “Then what we’ll do is offer Golden Boy a substantial sum of money for Golden Boy and Mares. If they take it, fine; if they don’t take it, we move on.”

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Arum talks a lot of shit, though. He wanted to make Pacquiao/Mayweather, JuanMa/Gamboa, Rios/Matthysse, Mares/Donaire. Does he really?

[Lilo]

You know Arum might just think "Fuck it. He's clearly the best so why not make all these fights"

I'm not convinced a fight with Mare/Rigo/John/Salido/Juanma is a 50-50 fight anyway especially given how he dealt with Nishioka. They aren't that risky. If I was Arum I would think its a shame to sacrifice a double Gold/pro titlist when there are so many fights in and around with fighters not contracted to Top Rank.

Donaire could beat Mares, move up and leave Rigo to take over. That's best for Arum isn't it? So maybe it'll be Donaire-John and Mares-WBC mando, followed by Donaire-Mares.

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by Lilo

You know Arum might just think "Fuck it. He's clearly the best so why not make all these fights"

I'm not convinced a fight with Mare/Rigo/John/Salido/Juanma is a 50-50 fight anyway especially given how he dealt with Nishioka. They aren't that risky. If I was Arum I would think its a shame to sacrifice a double Gold/pro titlist when there are so many fights in and around with fighters not contracted to Top Rank.

Donaire could beat Mares, move up and leave Rigo to take over. That's best for Arum isn't it? So maybe it'll be Donaire-John and Mares-WBC mando, followed by Donaire-Mares.

You never can tell with Bob Arum and Top Rank can you!

He makes business sense decisions, ofcourse he does, hes a business man.

But id just like to see more risk being taken with Donaire because he's equal to even the most obscene type of risk IMO.

[ishy]

Originally Posted by R.I.P Sky

Arum talks a lot of shit, though. He wanted to make Pacquiao/Mayweather, JuanMa/Gamboa, Rios/Matthysse, Mares/Donaire. Does he really?

Arum never talked about Rios/Mattyhsse. That was more from Golden Boy.

Both GBP and TR would like to make Mares/Donaire but the shit thing is they want it on their terms. GBP want to promote it on Showtime, TR on HBO. It's a load of wank.

Arum was working towards Lopez/Gamboa then JuanMa went and lost to Salido. Can't blame him for that. And we got two great fights in Salido/Lopez I and II.

Pac/Mayweather? Really? Both sides fucked up that one.

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by ishy

Arum never talked about Rios/Mattyhsse. That was more from Golden Boy.

Both GBP and TR would like to make Mares/Donaire but the shit thing is they want it on their terms. GBP want to promote it on Showtime, TR on HBO. It's a load of wank.

Arum was working towards Lopez/Gamboa then JuanMa went and lost to Salido. Can't blame him for that. And we got two great fights in Salido/Lopez I and II.

Pac/Mayweather? Really? Both sides fucked up that one.

I have to rudely interrupt that one

Gamboa Juanma should have been made round about the time Juanma Marquez was made, maybe even earlier, he had a period of 18 months were he was clearly unwilling to make the fight and it was the most relevent fight in world boxing,then Juanma ran into Salido!

Agree btw, Juanma Salido were terrific fights, specially the 2nd

[ishy]

Arum had the same problem with Gamboa as he does with Rigo. These Cubans are extremely talented but aren't draws.

So Bob was trying to build JuanMa/Gamboa up and it's not as if he was matching them soft. We look at all these potential fights from a fans point of view but unfortunately the way boxing is structured fights have to make financial sense before they are made. Arum had this extremely popular, fan-friendly Puerto Rican guy who was a star in his country and building a profile in the US. Why would he put him in with this extremely dangerous, unknown Cuba?

Bob's plan was to get Gamboa known to the masses before making the fight. But yeah, Salido happened.

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by ishy

Arum had the same problem with Gamboa as he does with Rigo. These Cubans are extremely talented but aren't draws.

So Bob was trying to build JuanMa/Gamboa up and it's not as if he was matching them soft. We look at all these potential fights from a fans point of view but unfortunately the way boxing is structured fights have to make financial sense before they are made. Arum had this extremely popular, fan-friendly Puerto Rican guy who was a star in his country and building a profile in the US. Why would he put him in with this extremely dangerous, unknown Cuba?

Bob's plan was to get Gamboa known to the masses before making the fight. But yeah, Salido happened.

I understand and completely agree this was the plan, but i will never condone it!

Match Juanma with Gamboa (not quite completely unknown but not in Juanma's league of popularity at that time, i seen Juanma on the cover of the Ring before i seen him fight) you already have one rising star, if he wins, his star continues to shine, in what should be a great fight boosting his profile even further, if he loses another star is born! Gamboa

But yes your right, "UNFORTUNATELY" the promotion business has become too lucrative for promotional companies and its business first before anything else!

Also sometimes you have to be up front and honest with certain fighters from certain countries and say, they are never going to be known to the masses, but there pretty good fighters, lets give him his shot, ability comes before anything else when trying to boost a guys popularity, the personality can only be unleashed if the ability is there!

[thewinfella]

All this BTW is not taking into consideration the presence of Caballero and Chris John at the time.

The frustration surrounding Arum, Juan Manuel Lopez & Yuriorkis Gamboa continues with Donaire!