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Old 12-31-2012, 11:56 AM   #46
des3995
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Originally Posted by Juiceboxbiotch View Post
10-9 Don Flamenco. The (technical) knockdown wins Flamenco the round, but because he was dominated for the rest of the round, he doesn't get the extra point. As strange as it may sound, its the correct way to score such a round.
My real questions are....

Do you think a case can be made for a 10-10 round in an extreme case like that?

Is there any case a 10-10 round could be scored when a KD was involved?
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:23 PM   #47
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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My real questions are....

Do you think a case can be made for a 10-10 round in an extreme case like that?

Is there any case a 10-10 round could be scored when a KD was involved?
I would say that in the case you mentioned that a 10-10 round isn't at all out of the question, des. I view a kd as being a two point swing, as opposed to an automatic victory. In an instance where a fighter would have won the round 10-8 even without an official kd, 10-10 is a valid way to score a round like the one you described.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:18 PM   #48
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I would say that in the case you mentioned that a 10-10 round isn't at all out of the question, des. I view a kd as being a two point swing, as opposed to an automatic victory. In an instance where a fighter would have won the round 10-8 even without an official kd, 10-10 is a valid way to score a round like the one you described.
It would have to be extreme circumstances, understandably, but if there is no hard and fast RULE that Flamenco gets the round, I'd have an awful hard time giving it to him.

I could more easily envision a 10-9 Flamenco round had his shot been a real power shot that landed flush and put his man down more emphatically. The justification being that his 1 punch did more damage and affected his opponent more profoundly than the reverse, theoretically.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:36 PM   #49
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Originally Posted by Juiceboxbiotch View Post
The 10-Point Must System is complicated and there have been (understandably) quite a few threads asking about certain aspects of properly scoring a Boxing match (as well as a lot of uninformed posters answering). So I put together a brief overview and FAQ on this topic. I hope it helps increase the understanding of scoring around here...

If you are the TL;DR type, jump to the bottom of the post and reference the FAQ.


That should answer most questions, including some of the following, which have come up on this forum:

Q:

A: Yes. Although rarely used by professional judges, awarding 10 points to both fighters in an evenly contested round is perfectly legal and acceptable under the rules.

Q:

A: If each boxer was knocked down once in the same round, the knockdowns are disregarded and the winner of the round receives 10 points, while the loser receives 9 points.

Q:

A: 10-8 in favor of Fighter B. In terms of scoring, knockdowns cancel each other out. When Fighter A scored one knockdown, the score for this round went from 10-7 to 10-8.

Q:

A: 9-9. An exception is only applied to the "10-point must" part of the system when the referee calls time and docks a point from a fighter for committing a foul (repeated low blows, intentional head butts, etc...).

Q:

A: That sounds like a realistic round, I'll give it a go. First, deduct the knockdowns. If "Fighter B" scored one more knockdown than "Fighter A," the 4 other knockdowns in the round (2 for each fighter) cancel each other out. But wait, "Fighter B" was "dominated" in the round. I would start the score 10-9 in favor of "Fighter B," and then deduct 2 points from "Fighter A" for the fouls. This round would be scored 10-7 in favor of "Fighter B," although some judges may ignore the subjective concept of "domination" in a round so full of knockdowns and fouls, perhaps scoring it 10-6. Do you have a link to this crazy ass round?

If you have any questions regarding scoring that this guide does not cover, please post it in this thread and I will add it to the original post.

Thanks to Booradly for RTD

Outstanding thread, this is what ESB needs more of
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:38 AM   #50
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Outstanding thread, this is what ESB needs more of
Glad you enjoyed it, I hope it was helpful!

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Originally Posted by Drew101 View Post
I would say that in the case you mentioned that a 10-10 round isn't at all out of the question, des. I view a kd as being a two point swing, as opposed to an automatic victory. In an instance where a fighter would have won the round 10-8 even without an official kd, 10-10 is a valid way to score a round like the one you described.
I fully agree on the point you made about 2-point swing rather than auto-winning the round. 10-10 is a valid way to score it as well but not the way I would... of course, I guess I would have to actually see the round.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:08 PM   #51
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Glad you enjoyed it, I hope it was helpful!



I fully agree on the point you made about 2-point swing rather than auto-winning the round. 10-10 is a valid way to score it as well but not the way I would... of course, I guess I would have to actually see the round.
Yeah, it's just a hypothetical anyway. And it would have to be an extreme case, and all the stars would need to align. Just wanted to see what other guys thought, and this seemed like a good place to bring it up.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:27 PM   #52
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

Convention holds that Flamenco would receive a 10-9 if Glass truly dominated the majority of the time until the KD. (to the point it was verging on a 10-8 for Glass anyway, without knocking Flamenco down)

If it was anything less than absolute bell-to-clap dominance by Glass, Flamenco gets the usual 10-8.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:28 PM   #53
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

I see Juicebox already answered. des had requested I chime in.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:30 PM   #54
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

Now, here's a brain teaser...

Both men score knockdowns, and the action is mostly competitive otherwise.

10-10?

Usually when two knockdowns are scored, people treat the round as they would any normal round - the knockdowns cancelling each other out. So whoever did better the rest of the time would get a 10-9.

The question becomes, how much does one have to really impose himself to become the 10-9 recipient in the event of a double KD? How much of a priority is it to avoid a 10-10?


Say Glass and Flamenco trade knockdowns, and if you subtract them both it would have been a "close-but-clear" 10-9 for Glass. (or one that half the people scoring saw one way, and half the other...)

Would that be an acceptable 10-10?

Of course, if Glass was dominant for 2+ minutes and they traded knockdowns it's a pretty clear-cut 10-9 to Glass...
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:06 PM   #55
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
Now, here's a brain teaser...

Both men score knockdowns, and the action is mostly competitive otherwise.

10-10?

Usually when two knockdowns are scored, people treat the round as they would any normal round - the knockdowns cancelling each other out. So whoever did better the rest of the time would get a 10-9.

The question becomes, how much does one have to really impose himself to become the 10-9 recipient in the event of a double KD? How much of a priority is it to avoid a 10-10?


Say Glass and Flamenco trade knockdowns, and if you subtract them both it would have been a "close-but-clear" 10-9 for Glass. (or one that half the people scoring saw one way, and half the other...)

Would that be an acceptable 10-10?

Of course, if Glass was dominant for 2+ minutes and they traded knockdowns it's a pretty clear-cut 10-9 to Glass...
Juice also thought the original scenario COULD go 10-10 after Drew worked his magic.

As for your scenario, which we shall dub scenario B, I'd be disinclined to give a 10-10 as I am usually able to find enough separation to score it one way or the other, right or wrong. Not there aren't any, just very few and far between.

But......

.....how about if Glass Joe dominates to the tune of what would normally be a 10-8. How inclined, or resistant would you be to give him that 10-8 considering they traded KDs?

Or say Glass Joe dominates with what be a 10-8 round, flat out dominating, and then scores a late KD. How inclined/resistant would you be to give a 10-7 in that case. Considering that 1) the round was a whoopass round from the get go, and 2) you had already decided it would be 10-8 as the closing seconds approached, and then the KD occurred. Would you, could you score that a 10-7?
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:34 AM   #56
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
Now, here's a brain teaser...

Both men score knockdowns, and the action is mostly competitive otherwise.

10-10?

Usually when two knockdowns are scored, people treat the round as they would any normal round - the knockdowns cancelling each other out. So whoever did better the rest of the time would get a 10-9.

The question becomes, how much does one have to really impose himself to become the 10-9 recipient in the event of a double KD? How much of a priority is it to avoid a 10-10?


Say Glass and Flamenco trade knockdowns, and if you subtract them both it would have been a "close-but-clear" 10-9 for Glass. (or one that half the people scoring saw one way, and half the other...)

Would that be an acceptable 10-10?

Of course, if Glass was dominant for 2+ minutes and they traded knockdowns it's a pretty clear-cut 10-9 to Glass...
I don't feel like it would be a priority to avoid scoring a 10-10 round just for scoring sake. If the boxers trade knockdowns in an already evenly contested round, why not score it 10-10? Even rounds are even.

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Originally Posted by des3995 View Post
Juice also thought the original scenario COULD go 10-10 after Drew worked his magic.

As for your scenario, which we shall dub scenario B, I'd be disinclined to give a 10-10 as I am usually able to find enough separation to score it one way or the other, right or wrong. Not there aren't any, just very few and far between.

But......

.....how about if Glass Joe dominates to the tune of what would normally be a 10-8. How inclined, or resistant would you be to give him that 10-8 considering they traded KDs?

Or say Glass Joe dominates with what be a 10-8 round, flat out dominating, and then scores a late KD. How inclined/resistant would you be to give a 10-7 in that case. Considering that 1) the round was a whoopass round from the get go, and 2) you had already decided it would be 10-8 as the closing seconds approached, and then the KD occurred. Would you, could you score that a 10-7?
These examples are pushing the scoring system to the limit!

I would be remiss for not pointing out that if a boxer is dominating a round as you say AND scores a late knockdown... the ref would probably be stopping the fight before the judges get a chance to score the round. That's why you'll probably never see such a scenario unfold. Still, I'll bite on the scoring. I would probably still just go with 10-8 in either situation. If I'm giving 10-7, we've got a terrible ref who should never work a pro fight again.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:44 AM   #57
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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I don't feel like it would be a priority to avoid scoring a 10-10 round just for scoring sake. If the boxers trade knockdowns in an already evenly contested round, why not score it 10-10? Even rounds are even.



These examples are pushing the scoring system to the limit!
Sorry. Can't help myself.

I's good exercise.

Quote:
I would be remiss for not pointing out that if a boxer is dominating a round as you say AND scores a late knockdown... the ref would probably be stopping the fight before the judges get a chance to score the round. That's why you'll probably never see such a scenario unfold. Still, I'll bite on the scoring. I would probably still just go with 10-8 in either situation. If I'm giving 10-7, we've got a terrible ref who should never work a pro fight again.
Probably. But for arguments sake, in a test-a-theory sort of way, or even better, how about if................... oh nevermind.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:51 AM   #58
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Default Re: Boxing Scoring FAQ and Discussion

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Juice also thought the original scenario COULD go 10-10 after Drew worked his magic.

As for your scenario, which we shall dub scenario B, I'd be disinclined to give a 10-10 as I am usually able to find enough separation to score it one way or the other, right or wrong. Not there aren't any, just very few and far between.

But......

.....how about if Glass Joe dominates to the tune of what would normally be a 10-8. How inclined, or resistant would you be to give him that 10-8 considering they traded KDs?

Or say Glass Joe dominates with what be a 10-8 round, flat out dominating, and then scores a late KD. How inclined/resistant would you be to give a 10-7 in that case. Considering that 1) the round was a whoopass round from the get go, and 2) you had already decided it would be 10-8 as the closing seconds approached, and then the KD occurred. Would you, could you score that a 10-7?

Do you one better...

Tit-for-tat action for 2:40 - but they each score knockdowns. Then Glass scores another knockdown.

So we'll call it a 10-10 base, using the previously explained model...so then Glass comes full circle to a 10-9? (where he'd be at 10-7 had he not himself been knocked down...)

OR...does the fact that he numerically outdid Flamenco in knockdowns swing the overall impression of the dead heat his way? (so we'll say with Flamenco's KD and his first KD canceling each other out and him starting at 10-9...then getting a 10-8 with the extra?)
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:18 PM   #59
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Do you one better...

Tit-for-tat action for 2:40 - but they each score knockdowns. Then Glass scores another knockdown.

So we'll call it a 10-10 base, using the previously explained model...so then Glass comes full circle to a 10-9? (where he'd be at 10-7 had he not himself been knocked down...)

OR...does the fact that he numerically outdid Flamenco in knockdowns swing the overall impression of the dead heat his way? (so we'll say with Flamenco's KD and his first KD canceling each other out and him starting at 10-9...then getting a 10-8 with the extra?)
I'd say 10-8.

To me Glass Joe would have won the round. 10-9. In theory the 2 KD's could account for superior work.

Then he scored another KD for a 10-8.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:21 PM   #60
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I'd say 10-8.

To me Glass Joe would have won the round. 10-9. In theory the 2 KD's could account for superior work.

Then he scored another KD for a 10-8.
I think my operating assumption in bringing up these scenarios is that none of the knockdowns are too authoritative. Just a lot of flash-bangs, knuckles brushing the canvas, etc.

A good, hard knockdown should definitely be rewarded in the case of knockdown trades, the same way more effective punches are rewarded over an equivalent number of less effective ones.
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