Pacquiao > Chavez

[Slickstar]

Originally Posted by Chempasillo

yeah and lost

manny outright avoided them. As our pacquiao fans like to say it's better to lose trying than to not try at all.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by Bogotazo

Agreed

Taylor was an absolute beast of an opponent imo. Obviously we can't call him an ATG although I do believe Chavez had two hands in that (yes I know he beat Davis ten months on) but he sure as hell had all time talent and a lot that simply cannot be taught. More than natural talent was an extensive and illustrious amateur backround and skills to match. It manifested itself that night and he performed at the highest level. Hurts my head to imagine all of the fighters on resumes who are greater in name that don't match what Chavez faced that day.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RPigGaNqZc&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RPigGaNqZc&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

Surreal.

[Bogotazo]

Originally Posted by Chempasillo

hatton also pressured and came at pacquiao and you know what happened. well chavez is better than hatton, but pac loves the open fight and thats would be the downfall for chavez, because pac hits harder and is more speedy. and chavez would come after him because it was all he ever did.

All Chavez ever did was come forward? No, look again.

Hatton's pressure from then and Chavez's pressure are like night and day.

Pacquiao wasn't loving the pressure so much when Morales followed up on his counters with combinations that pressed him back and pushed his feet off balance. Chavez was more adept at cutting off the ring and was more fluid in integrating his defensive head movement with his counters.

Also, I'd say Chavez hit harder than Pacquiao, or was at least on par.

Pacquiao has a shot to win, but your premise that Manny looks more skilled and better on film from the few clips you provided doesn't translate into the picture your painting of a dominant Pacquiao victory.

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

Taylor was an absolute beast of an opponent imo. Obviously we can't call him an ATG although I do believe Chavez had two hands in that (yes I know he beat Davis ten months on) but he sure as hell had all time talent and a lot that simply cannot be taught. More than natural talent was an extensive and illustrious amateur backround and skills to match. It manifested itself that night and he performed at the highest level. Hurts my head to imagine all of the fighters on resumes who are greater in name that don't match what Chavez faced that day.

Yeah, he really was a natural. Quick on his feet when turning, relentless with those combinations, solid fundamentals, and never hesitated to stand and fight.

[sweet_scientist]

Chavez would have crushed Pacquiao.

[MMJoe]

Originally Posted by MAG1965

Pacman fought better guys so you have to give him the edge

Whoa, whoa, whoa, Manny has been fighting other champs retreads as long as I can remember. Once he ran out of opponent inventory from the exchamp retirement home and fought a live fighter (Bradley) he lost.
He picks Marquez, possibly a fight or two away from retirement for a comeback fight then..Marquez puts Manny face down into deep space hibernation. Manny's management picked his opponents very carefully over the years. Chavez>5>4>3>2>1>Pacquiao, no comparison.

[lester proctor]

Originally Posted by MMJoe

Whoa, whoa, whoa, Manny has been fighting other champs retreads as long as I can remember. Once he ran out of opponent inventory from the exchamp retirement home and fought a live fighter (Bradley) he lost.
He picks Marquez, possibly a fight or two away from retirement for a comeback fight then..Marquez puts Manny face down into deep space hibernation. Manny's management picked his opponents very carefully over the years. Chavez>5>4>3>2>1>Pacquiao, no comparison.

Pac lost to Bradley? Whatever you said next is tainted

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by Chempasillo

I so often here about great fights from today or in rescent time not being seriously mentioned for p4p greatness. I mean, so many people say, no, either pac or floyd shouldnt be near a top 10 all time great list.

I compared 2 great boxer, 1 who is ranked by most in the top 20 and the other who climbed liek 10 divisions and should easily be mentioned in the top 5, yet he is not even mentioned for top 10.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

both, about same size and reach, both same weight in these bouts and both near or in prime. it doesn't get a better example than this and if you don't see teh huge difference of explosivness, strength, speed and punchinger power, also overall movemant, than you don't see what is happening in both videos, because the obvious is the obvious.

manny would KO either duran and chavez and has business in the top 10 and fuck nostalic feeling, when you fight 100 cans doesnt mean you're greater. chavez did not fought better opposition than pac when you just compare the level or world class fighter they faced. duran yes, but he also lost to barely all of them, have to give him credt, because he wasn't in his favourite weight.

Had to stop reading that post after that.. then I read another one of your posts and you said that Chavez won a robbery decision against Whitaker when it was a blatant robbery draw. Clearly ydksab.

[MMJoe]

Originally Posted by MAG1965

Morales,Barrera,Marquez,Delahoya,Mosley.

Morales….. and lost
Barrera…..,barrera twilight of his career
Marquez….Manny just got iced by this 40 year old.
Delahoya…..DLH last fight, DLH coming into fight 3-3 in his last 6 bouts
Mosley. 40 years old, coooooooome on! A bit shopworn to say the least.

[Urone2]

you pick a bad example if I remember right Larios had just been KO's in his fight before the fight with Manny and was moving up in weight. I give Manny credit for being a great athlete but with Chaves there were a lot of more athletic guy that it seemed would beat him, but his timing and body attack was unheard of. He use very small feint and movements to slip punches so he almost always was in the best position to counter. Chaves was a different beat win he was at his best at 140 and 135.

[Chempasillo]

Originally Posted by Slickstar

manny outright avoided them. As our pacquiao fans like to say it's better to lose trying than to not try at all.

he avoided them thats why he wanted to take less money and take olympic style drufg testing because he avoids black fighters...

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/J...9ZX67CNFTl.jpg

and that does that look brown or black to you....

again avoiding black fighters...

http://www.thereviewcorner.com/wp-co...11-500x360.jpg

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/M...iAe5Xlq03l.jpg

[Chempasillo]

Originally Posted by MMJoe

Morales….. and lost
Barrera…..,barrera twilight of his career
Marquez….Manny just got iced by this 40 year old.
Delahoya…..DLH last fight, DLH coming into fight 3-3 in his last 6 bouts
Mosley. 40 years old, coooooooome on! A bit shopworn to say the least.

it is not his fault that mosley isn't 25 anymore or that floyd does not wanna fight him. what should manny do, build a timemachine and fight a young sugar ray leonard?

all I know is this, that one you are a hater and if it so easy than why isnt everybody beating the likes of margarito, clottey or cotto or bradley??

second, the man is a midget, the dudes first fight was at minimumweight. he climbed 10 divisions, name me 1 fucker who did that!!!!

and the end of the story, fuck legacy, name me who would win in a 1 to 1 fights, by what you see in those 2 videos, of 2 boxers about the same weight and size.

I have it manny because its obvious he is just more athletic and explosiv and you neither anybody cant say anything against it, because the videos shows that he is.

[Nonito Smoak]

Pacquiao > Chavez, I agree...

[Bogotazo]

Originally Posted by Chempasillo

I have it manny because its obvious he is just more athletic and explosiv and you neither anybody cant say anything against it, because the videos shows that he is.

The more athletic and explosive boxer always wins? Oh wait.

Opposing two isolated fights does nothing to suggest the dynamic of a H2H battle. But if you want to do it your way...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Bxn6zL0ec[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqaHTkw-n_E[/ame]

Again, Manny has a shot, but you need to answer questions of who's going to control the range and angle better, who's more likely to land their best punches once that range or angle is established, and who's going to get the better of it over 12 as the fight progresses. Comparing speed and explosiveness does nothing but tell us who's faster.

And you can celebrate your 10 divisions all you like, who you beat is what matters most. I'm not knocking Pacquiao, but you're all over the place with your evaluations.

[Chempasillo]

if meldrick beat chavez, than so do manny, who hits harder, has more endurance and is not far away from being as fast as meldrick.

[Chempasillo]

Originally Posted by Bogotazo

The more athletic and explosive boxer always wins? Oh wait.

Opposing two isolated fights does nothing to suggest the dynamic of a H2H battle. But if you want to do it your way...

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Again, Manny has a shot, but you need to answer questions of who's going to control the range and angle better, who's more likely to land their best punches once that range or angle is established, and who's going to get the better of it over 12 as the fight progresses. Comparing speed and explosiveness does nothing but tell us who's faster.

And you can celebrate your 10 divisions all you like, who you beat is what matters most. I'm not knocking Pacquiao, but you're all over the place with your evaluations.

fast in boxing is like one of the most important things overall.

on top he is not only faster but stronger, he hits harder, he hits more often.

chavez comes at you, always. manny destroyes 99 % of boxers who come at him. because he can counterpunch, his punches are super fast, super strong and when he punches in bunches, its like a flurry of 4-6 hardcore punches coming at you. marquez KO'd him out of the defence, best what he could do. mayweather is favourite if they faught, because he also fights from the defence. guys liek hatton, cotto or morales or paid, because they